topic Re: A Social Credit Score.... in Community Chat

A Social Credit Score....

SeaMaiden — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 16:08:21 GMT

China has gone here.... are we next?

The Chinese state is setting up a vast ranking system that will monitor the behavior of its enormous population, and rank them all based on their "social credit."

The "social credit system," first announced in 2014, aims to reinforce the idea that "keeping trust is glorious and breaking trust is disgraceful,"

The program is due to be fully operational nationwide by 2020, but is being piloted for millions of people across the country already. The scheme will be mandatory.

At the moment the system is piecemeal — some are run by city councils, others are scored by private tech platforms which hold personal data.

Like private credit scores, a person's social score can move up and down depending on their behavior. The exact methodology is a secret — but examples of infractions include bad driving, smoking in non-smoking zones, buying too many video games and posting fake news online.

1. Banning you from flying or getting the train.

A railway station waiting hall in Hangzhou in February 2016.

China has already started punishing people by restricting their travel.

Nine million people with low scores have been blocked from buying tickets for domestic flights citing official statistics.

They can also clamp down on luxury options — three million people are barred from getting business-class train tickets.

The eventual system will punish bad passengers specifically. Potential misdeeds include trying to ride with no ticket, loitering in front of boarding gates, or smoking in no-smoking areas.

2. Throttling your internet speeds.

This is according to Rachel Botsman,. The exact mechanics aren't clear yet.

, credit systems monitor whether people pay bills on time, much like financial credit trackers — but also ascribe a moral dimension.

Other mooted punishable offences include spending too long playing video games, wasting money on frivolous purchases and posting on social media.

Spreading fake news, specifically about terrorist attacks or airport security, will also be punishable offences.

3. Banning you — or your kids — from the best schools.

Students sing the national anthem in the playground during the flag-hoisting ceremony at their school in Shanghai., September 27, 2017. CHANDAN KHANNA/AFP/Getty Images

17 people who refused to carry out military service last year were barred from enrolling in higher education, applying for high school, or continuing their studies

In July, a Chinese universitydenied a student admision as father had a bad social credit score.

4. Stopping you getting the best jobs.

The Great Hall of the People in Beijing, one of China's largest state buildings.

"Trust-breaking" individuals would also be banned from doing management jobs in state-owned firms and big banks.

Some crimes, like fraud and embezzlement, would also have a big effect on social credit, Botsman reported.

5. Keeping you out of the best hotels.

The state-owned, five-star Beijing Hotel.

People who refused military service were also banned from some holidays and hotels — showing that vacation plans are fair game too.

The regime rewards people here as well as punishes them.

People with good scores can speed up travel applications to places like Europe, Botsman said.

An unidentified woman in Beijing said that she was able to book a hotel without having to pay a cash deposit because she had a good score.

6. Getting your dog taken away.

A woman holds her pet dog in the middle of a traffic jam in Anhui province in January 2014. REUTERS/Stringer

The eastern Chinese city of Jinan started enforcing a social credit system for dog owners in 2017, whereby pet owners get points deducted if the dog is walked without a leash or causes public disturbances.

Those who lost all their points had their dogs confiscated and had to take a test on regulations required for pet ownership.

7. Being publicly named as a bad citizen.

China's President Xi Jinping looking disdainful in December 2017. REUTERS/Fred Dufour/Pool

Naming and shaming is another tactic available. encourages companies to consult the blacklist before hiring people or giving them contracts.

However, people will be notified by the courts before they are added to the list, and are allowed to appeal against the decision within ten days of receiving the notification.

It's not clear when the list will start to be implemented.

A prototype blacklist already exists, and has been used to punish people.

The scrolling list on the left shows individual's names alongside partially redacted ID numbers, while the one on the right shows company names.

Li Xiaolin, a lawyer who was placed on the list in 2015, found himself unable to purchase plane tickets home while on a work trip, He also couldn't apply for credit cards.

This video, posted by freelance journalist James O'Malley, shows an announcement on a bullet train from Beijing to Shanghai warning people not to misbehave — or else their "behavior will be recorded in individual credit information system."

A bike-share station in China. Andy Zwikel

These perks were available to people in Rongcheng, eastern China, whose city council rolled out a social credit system for its citizens and was

Despite the creepiness of the system — Human Rights Watch called it "chilling," while Botsman called it "a futuristic vision of Big Brother out of control" — some citizens say it's making them better people already.

A crossroad in Guangdong, China. China Photos/Getty

A 32-year-old entrepreneur, who only gave his name as Chen, told Foreign Policy: "I feel like in the past six months, people's behaviour has gotten better and better.

"For example, when we drive, now we always stop in front of crosswalks. If you don't stop, you will lose your points.

"At first, we just worried about losing points, but now we got used to it."

Re: A Social Credit Score....

dex — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 15:07:40 GMT

Well I guess nobody is licking ice cream at the grocery store in China.

Re: A Social Credit Score....

SeaMaiden — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 15:08:37 GMT

@dex wrote:
Well I guess nobody is licking ice cream at the grocery store in China.

@dex You are right!

Re: A Social Credit Score....

Suzeecat — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 15:16:05 GMT

I see a lot of good examples in the article for holding people accountable for their behavior. However, I can also see way more opportunities for this to be abused.

Re: A Social Credit Score....

2blonde — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 15:26:47 GMT

As horrifying as this all sounds to us, there likely will be a lot of improved behavior because of it. To a degree I see the positive side of it (holding people accountable for their actions), but the excessive control is a bit overwhelming and frightening to me. Penalizing a son for his father's actions, for instance, sounds unfair to me.

Re: A Social Credit Score....

haddon9 — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 15:27:48 GMT

Scary! A way to control their citizens.

In some ways we're being controlled here too in the US but it's not really the "American way". I like to think that we value our freedoms too much but I can see how some are being slowly chipped away.

Re: A Social Credit Score....

Tabbycat — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 15:45:05 GMT

@haddon9...I couldn't agree more. What's scary is, people don't even realize it how we're being manipulated. It all seems so normal.

Re: A Social Credit Score....

haddon9 — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 15:47:30 GMT

@Tabbycat wrote:
@haddon9...I couldn't agree more. What's scary is, people don't even realize it how we're being manipulated. It all seems so normal.

@Tabbycat Yes you're right....lots of people don't even realize it. Keep the masses happy and they won't know when they lose some precious freedoms.

Re: A Social Credit Score....

SeaMaiden — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 15:48:07 GMT

yes...little by little step by step. We really see it as normal like they do in China after awhile.

Re: A Social Credit Score....

Sooner — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 15:59:57 GMT

Well, they can take lessons right here! I do not comment on a lot of topics here now because I know the thought police and people of one mind about certain people will pounce on you forthwith!

The haters call you a hater and accuse you of all sorts of things. I have found it is usually haters who throw that term around to the rest of us by the way. Remember the old saying "Takes one to know one?" Well now it takes one to suspect (because they are biased) one!

Re: A Social Credit Score....

sidsmom — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 16:01:17 GMT

Just a warning.

This article has a couple hyperlinks which are odd.

@SeaMaiden You might consider deleting all links.

I’d suggest not clicking on anything...might be malware.

Re: A Social Credit Score....

Tabbycat — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 16:02:04 GMT

And it's like repeating the same thing a million time makes it true. I've hear this one so many times it's unbelievable and nutty..... no more gas powered cars, no more airplanes and heaven forbid, no more cows or hamburgers. Geeze

Re: A Social Credit Score....

SeaMaiden — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 16:09:14 GMT

@sidsmom wrote:
Just a warning.
This article has a couple hyperlinks which are odd.
@SeaMaiden You might consider deleting all links.
I’d suggest not clicking on anything...might be malware.

@sidsmom Thanks for the heads up. Went back and took them out best I could.

Re: A Social Credit Score....

Marp — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 16:25:08 GMT

@2blonde wrote:
As horrifying as this all sounds to us, there likely will be a lot of improved behavior because of it. To a degree I see the positive side of it (holding people accountable for their actions), but the excessive control is a bit overwhelming and frightening to me. Penalizing a son for his father's actions, for instance, sounds unfair to me.

Sitting on my hands while thinking about I Dreamed a Dream.

Re: A Social Credit Score....

Drythe — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:40:03 GMT

@SeaMaiden

While I can still have them on my own, may I say Thought Provoking.

An horrific example of Big Brother!

@Sooner

I have no idea as to the point of your post, I only see one person using the term ‘hater’.

But, I do agree, yes, this ‘social credit score’ is another example of the Thought Police, a la Mao.

Monarchy at it’s finest.

Re: A Social Credit Score....

blackhole99 — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:47:14 GMT

I guess my husband is right when he says,"people really are that stupid".

Re: A Social Credit Score....

GingerPeach — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:18:50 GMT

@Drythe

Your words give me a chill:

"While I can still have them on my own, may I say Thought Provoking."

Re: A Social Credit Score....

suzyQ3 — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:41:29 GMT

@Sooner wrote:
Well, they can take lessons right here! I do not comment on a lot of topics here now because I know the thought police and people of one mind about certain people will pounce on you forthwith!

The haters call you a hater and accuse you of all sorts of things. I have found it is usually haters who throw that term around to the rest of us by the way. Remember the old saying "Takes one to know one?" Well now it takes one to suspect (because they are biased) one!

@Sooner, whether I agree with you or not about what happens "right here" (hint: I don't), this discussion is about the government, not private entities or individuals.

Re: A Social Credit Score....

Sooner — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 22:21:12 GMT

@suzyQ3 wrote:
@Sooner wrote:
Well, they can take lessons right here! I do not comment on a lot of topics here now because I know the thought police and people of one mind about certain people will pounce on you forthwith!

The haters call you a hater and accuse you of all sorts of things. I have found it is usually haters who throw that term around to the rest of us by the way. Remember the old saying "Takes one to know one?" Well now it takes one to suspect (because they are biased) one!
@Sooner, whether I agree with you or not about what happens "right here" (hint: I don't), this discussion is about the government, not private entities or individuals.

@suzyQ3 I made a point pertinent to to the discussion. Whether we discuss actions by governments or the same tendencies by people and non-government groups of like-minded people, it is the same tendency in our society today. That was my point.

I am not at all surprised that you don't agree with me. That's certainly part of a discussion. And you have always made your positions clear. So there's no problem there for me.

Re: A Social Credit Score....

goldensrbest — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 22:51:14 GMT

This was on the today show this morning,and nbc news just now, sunday night a special,i find this very scary.