topic Re: Becoming a dual citizen in Community Chat

Becoming a dual citizen

puttypiesmom — Wed, 23 May 2018 22:41:03 GMT

Could cause the Monarchy scrutiny by the IRS. As it is now, she is in for a confusing ride with many IRS rules to follow or be taxed quite heavily.

An interesting read is here

Google

Meghan Markle could get an allowance from the British royal family — but she may have to pay double the taxes

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

blackhole99 — Wed, 23 May 2018 22:48:24 GMT

I remember Fergie saying how cheap and stingy the Queen was when she was married to one of the Royals. I can't imagine the Queen giving her any money, even if it's taxpayer money.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

Venezia — Wed, 23 May 2018 23:22:37 GMT

It wouldn't be taxpayer money and hasn't been for a long time. Google the Royal Family Civil List, if you want to understand it. Wiki has a good article on it.

Fergie wasn't exactly a great example of royal behavior so I'd take her comments with several grains of salt. Would you expect your mother-in-law to support you?

Britain and the US have a reciprocal tax agreement. I would think Canada likely does also. Tax laws are not simple, but the IRS certainly won't be scrutinizing the Monarchy. I have dual nationality and have no problem with the tax system.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

GSPgirl — Wed, 23 May 2018 23:39:47 GMT

@blackhole99 wrote:
I remember Fergie saying how cheap and stingy the Queen was when she was married to one of the Royals. I can't imagine the Queen giving her any money, even if it's taxpayer money.

She said the wine was horrid and it was cold in the room she stayed in. She also stated that in your own when you marry into the family. You don’t go to etiquette classes or “Royal” classes to learn how to fit in.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

GSPgirl — Wed, 23 May 2018 23:41:06 GMT

@Venezia wrote:
It wouldn't be taxpayer money and hasn't been for a long time. Google the Royal Family Civil List, if you want to understand it. Wiki has a good article on it.

Fergie wasn't exactly a great example of royal behavior so I'd take her comments with several grains of salt. Would you expect your mother-in-law to support you?

Britain and the US have a reciprocal tax agreement. I would think Canada likely does also. Tax laws are not simple, but the IRS certainly won't be scrutinizing the Monarchy. I have dual nationality and have no problem with the tax system.

Diana also has no support and that’s well documented.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

Venezia — Wed, 23 May 2018 23:49:23 GMT

Poor Fergie. She and Andrew got their home rent-free along with other perks. But the wine didn't suit her? How sad.

And then she cheated on Andrew and was involved in a whole series of exploits that the tabloids had a field day with, embarrassing Andrew and the Royal Family. Yet even long after they were divorced he allowed her to live in his home for free, when she had nowhere to go. She was the author of her own disastrous story which she has admitted in recent years.

She said in an interview "I had it all and I threw it away." Indeed.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

YorkieonmyPillow — Thu, 24 May 2018 00:00:58 GMT

@GSPgirl wrote:
@Venezia wrote:
It wouldn't be taxpayer money and hasn't been for a long time. Google the Royal Family Civil List, if you want to understand it. Wiki has a good article on it.

Fergie wasn't exactly a great example of royal behavior so I'd take her comments with several grains of salt. Would you expect your mother-in-law to support you?

Britain and the US have a reciprocal tax agreement. I would think Canada likely does also. Tax laws are not simple, but the IRS certainly won't be scrutinizing the Monarchy. I have dual nationality and have no problem with the tax system.
Diana also has no support and that’s well documented.

Diana had plenty of support.

She said she didn't because she wanted out and she wanted to turn the public against Charles.

Really, its ridiculous to believe that the Royal Family would take Diana into their midst, in her position and as future Queen, and give her absolutely no guidance or direction.

Just like her allegations of how cold the RF was to her; it's all bunk.

You don't hear any complaints from Kate, Camilla, and they obviously are kind to Meghan which, if the RF had ANY hostility towards anyone, it would be towards Meghan and yet she obviously fits into the RF seamlessly and feels comfortable.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

puttypiesmom — Thu, 24 May 2018 00:28:54 GMT

@Venezia

Meghan Markle will soon become the newest member of the British royal family, which commands a fortune over $500 million. But romping in their riches may cost her extra.

Markle and Prince Harry will wed on May 19 at St. George's Chapel in Windsor and begin a carriage procession immediately after the ceremony. Though Markle will likely obtain the title of Duchess, she won't become a UK citizen for years.

Markle is a citizen of the United States and is purportedly living in the UK on a family visa, according to the BBC. As the fiancée of a British citizen - Prince Harry - Markle will have to marry within six months of obtaining the visa to maintain her status.

Markle's family visa will be effective in 2.5-year increments and she won't be granted permanent residency until she's lived in the UK for five years. After that, she can finally apply for UK citizenship and potentially become a dual citizen of the US and the UK.

All the while, the "Suits" actress will be paying taxes to the IRS on any income she makes - regardless of where she earns it.

"US citizens, green card holders, and permanent residents are required to file tax returns with the IRS every year no matter where they reside," Avani Ramnani, director of financial planning and wealth management at Francis Financial told Business Insider.

"This is a special tax return called the expatriate tax return she said. "US citizens, including Meghan Markle, get taxed on international income earned outside the US."

But Markle may qualify for the foreign earned income exclusion. Ramnani said, which in 2018 waives taxes on the first $104,100 of income earned in the residing country. But that doesn't include income from investments.

Since the age of 21, Prince Harry and Prince William have been receiving a $450,000 a year investment profit from their late mother's estate, which they pay taxes on to the UK government. They and Kate Middleton, also receive an annual seven-figure allowance from their father, Prince Charles, which is used to cover expenses like travel and wardrobe.

"The key for Meghan and her advisers would be to figure out what type of income she will be getting," Ramnani said. "Will this income be from the investments of a trust, or 'wages' for any work that she does, or any other type of income? Sometimes, getting one form of income is more advantageous than another."

Markle may also qualify for a foreign tax credit which allows tax on any income exceeding $104,100 to be reduced depending on the amount of taxes paid in the expat's country of residence. But, Ramnani said, "this credit may not be dollar-for-dollar as there are a lot of factors that come into play."

There's another US tax provision called the foreign housing exclusion which gives the taxpayer an additional deduction or credit for living expenses abroad. It does not include "expenses that are lavish or extravagant under the circumstances."

Nottingham Cottage, the future homestead of Markle and Prince Harry, is located on the sprawling grounds of Kensington Palace, and would probably be considered lavish.

As the Washington Post first reported back in November, Markle could "cause tax headaches" and create some "mundane hurdles" for the royal family.

If she becomes a dual US/UK citizen, Markle will have to continue filing her taxes each year with the IRS. If she has more than $300,000 in assets at any point during the year, she will have to file a specific form that details foreign assets, which could include foreign trusts, subjecting the royal family "to outside scrutiny," according to the Post.

From the Business Insider

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

Venezia — Thu, 24 May 2018 01:03:15 GMT

@puttypiesmom - Thank you. I lived there for 20 years before returning to the US, so I'm very familiar with it all.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

151949 — Thu, 24 May 2018 01:58:26 GMT

NO NO NO - if a United States Citizen lives out of the country for > a certain amount of time , I think it is all but 4 weeks in the total year - you do not have to pay US income tax.I lived several years out of the US while still maintaining my citizenship, and did not have to pay US income tax. You will have to pay taxes where you live if you qualify by their laws - which are extremely different in every country. We lived in England - where my husband was a citizen and worked for a British company. I lived in France, British virgin Islands,& Saudai Arabia as well.

When my first husband was alive he wanted to have duel citizenship but the USA did not allow it then - pre 1979. People on this board have since informed me they have duel citizenship, so I assume that law changed.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

sunshine45 — Thu, 24 May 2018 02:21:35 GMT

@151949

i have had dual citizenship since the day i was born, but the USA doesnt recognize my second country of citizenship (not the UK). i do have two passports, two birth certificates, two "social security" cards.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

Venezia — Thu, 24 May 2018 02:53:00 GMT

@151949- Sorry, but that information about taxation is not correct, as far as England is concerned.

There is, as I stated, a reciprocal agreement with England. You pay tax to the UK, if that's where you're living. Up to an agreed threshhold of income, you do not have to pay tax to the US as well. However, over that threshhold you do.

And as a US citizen living abroad you are still required to file an annual IRS tax return, even if you haven't reached that threshhold. As I said, I lived and worked there for 20 years. And both my husband (a UK citizen) and I worked for the Inland Revenue. We know the applicable tax laws.

However, this is rather getting away from the original point of this thread, I think.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

Highlands72 — Thu, 24 May 2018 02:55:11 GMT

@Venezia wrote:
. . .
And as a US citizen living abroad you are still required to file an annual IRS tax return, even if you haven't reached that threshhold. As I said, I lived and worked there for 20 years. And both my husband (a UK citizen) and I worked for the Inland Revenue. We know the applicable tax laws.

However, this is rather getting away from the original point of this thread, I think.

-------

The above information is correct. Having lived abroad and having close family currently residing on three different continents, I can attest to its accuracy.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

151949 — Thu, 24 May 2018 12:20:29 GMT

@Venezia wrote:
@151949- Sorry, but that information about taxation is not correct, as far as England is concerned.

There is, as I stated, a reciprocal agreement with England. You pay tax to the UK, if that's where you're living. Up to an agreed threshhold of income, you do not have to pay tax to the US as well. However, over that threshhold you do.

And as a US citizen living abroad you are still required to file an annual IRS tax return, even if you haven't reached that threshhold. As I said, I lived and worked there for 20 years. And both my husband (a UK citizen) and I worked for the Inland Revenue. We know the applicable tax laws.

However, this is rather getting away from the original point of this thread, I think.

Our income was under the threshold then because we never paid any US taxes while we lived abroad. When living in Saudi and France we had our pay dirctly deposited into Swiss bank accounts and never had to declare that money either. We lived out of our savings account instead of a paycheck. Some countries make it very easy to not pay taxes.My DH did have to pay British taxes when we lived in London and in the British virgin islands. But not US taxes.

AS for the citizenship - the USA does not recognize dual citizenship so if you are a citizen of another country you can't also be a citizen here and get the privledges of it like being able to vote. As far as I know. That's not to say some people wouldn't lie and still register to vote here and maybe not get caught. Once he got his green card to work here in the US though he started to pay into Social security and when he died young I did get SS for his children. Any worker with a green card in the US pays into SS And receives it when they come of age , just like a citizen.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

SahmIam — Thu, 24 May 2018 12:44:09 GMT

@Venezia @Highlands72 @sunshine45 are all correct.

I have dual citizenship: DH(a fellow Brit) became a US citizen about 20 years ago due to his occupation; my in-laws have dual citizenship as of 10 years ago (Brits) and one BIL who is back in the UK has dual citizenship.

Inlaws pay taxes to both countries; PITA but they do own a home in the UK as well as other places. They also pull pensions from both the UK and the US.

BIL is considering denouncing is US citizenship as he has been paying taxes to both UK and US though he hasn't lived in the us for 25 years. He was born in the UK to Brit parents but was given a US citizenship as a child when Dad was transferred here. The thing is, he will be able to pull US SS in addition to his UK pension; so, he continues to pay at this point.

What the Royals will do, who knows.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

Venezia — Thu, 24 May 2018 14:10:17 GMT

@151949 wrote:
Our income was under the threshold then because we never paid any US taxes while we lived abroad. When living in Saudi and France we had our pay dirctly deposited into Swiss bank accounts and never had to declare that money either. We lived out of our savings account instead of a paycheck. Some countries make it very easy to not pay taxes.My DH did have to pay British taxes when we lived in London and in the British virgin islands. But not US taxes.
AS for the citizenship - the USA does not recognize dual citizenship so if you are a citizen of another country you can't also be a citizen here and get the privledges of it like being able to vote. As far as I know. That's not to say some people wouldn't lie and still register to vote here and maybe not get caught. Once he got his green card to work here in the US though he started to pay into Social security and when he died young I did get SS for his children. Any worker with a green card in the US pays into SS And receives it when they come of age , just like a citizen.

1) Swiss bank accounts are notorious for shielding money. Just because you didn't file or pay, doesn't mean you weren't legally required to.

2) Yes, the US does recognize dual nationality. I have it and I did not lie to get it . I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but it's simply wrong.

3) Not necessarily; if a person works for a state government and pays into that equivalent of SS, he or she does not pay into SS.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

Drythe — Thu, 24 May 2018 17:40:56 GMT

@Venezia wrote:
@151949 wrote:
Our income was under the threshold then because we never paid any US taxes while we lived abroad. When living in Saudi and France we had our pay dirctly deposited into Swiss bank accounts and never had to declare that money either. We lived out of our savings account instead of a paycheck. Some countries make it very easy to not pay taxes.My DH did have to pay British taxes when we lived in London and in the British virgin islands. But not US taxes.
AS for the citizenship - the USA does not recognize dual citizenship so if you are a citizen of another country you can't also be a citizen here and get the privledges of it like being able to vote. As far as I know. That's not to say some people wouldn't lie and still register to vote here and maybe not get caught. Once he got his green card to work here in the US though he started to pay into Social security and when he died young I did get SS for his children. Any worker with a green card in the US pays into SS And receives it when they come of age , just like a citizen.
1) Swiss bank accounts are notorious for shielding money. Just because you didn't file or pay, doesn't mean you weren't legally required to.

2) Yes, the US does recognize dual nationality. I have it and I did not lie to get it . I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but it's simply wrong.

3) Not necessarily; if a person works for a state government and pays into that equivalent of SS, he or she does not pay into SS.

@Venezia

Thank you for trying to clarify these facts, you are totally correct. However, in this case I believe you are wasting your time.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

Venezia — Thu, 24 May 2018 21:52:08 GMT

@Drythe- Thank you. I know, but I can't stand to have someone misrepresent the facts.

(Just had a thought: Or are these "alternate facts"?)

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

chrystaltree — Sat, 26 May 2018 23:55:35 GMT

@puttypiesmom wrote:
Could cause the Monarchy scrutiny by the IRS. As it is now, she is in for a confusing ride with many IRS rules to follow or be taxed quite heavily.

An interesting read is here

Google

Meghan Markle could get an allowance from the British royal family — but she may have to pay double the taxes

I read somewhere that she'll probably give up her U.S. citizenship for that reason. She most definitely will have a hefty allowance now that she's a part of the Royal family and she willl also have a staff and a huge budget. The article also said that as a major Royal, while the law doesn't call for her to give up her citizenship here, tradition does.

Re: Becoming a dual citizen

chrystaltree — Sun, 27 May 2018 00:01:51 GMT

@GSPgirl wrote:
@blackhole99 wrote:
I remember Fergie saying how cheap and stingy the Queen was when she was married to one of the Royals. I can't imagine the Queen giving her any money, even if it's taxpayer money.
She said the wine was horrid and it was cold in the room she stayed in. She also stated that in your own when you marry into the family. You don’t go to etiquette classes or “Royal” classes to learn how to fit in.

No one believed any of that then and we know now that Fergie lied. Diana received her training for the Queen Mother and also....from Camilla, her future husband's "good friend". It's already been announced that Kate went through training and Meghan will have six months of Royal training. One of the Queen's social secretaries was scheduled to retire but she has agreed to stay on for 6 months to train Meghan. Kate needed less training because she and William had lived together for so many years before their marriage that she had learned much from exposure.