topic Re: MH370 plane reexaminded in Community Chat

MH370 plane reexaminded

songbird — Tue, 15 May 2018 11:35:49 GMT

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-370-crash-deliberate-panel-of-aviation-experts/

Aviation experts from the U.S., Australia & Malaysia that have examined the data of the Malaysian plane that went down in the Pacific, have released some disturbing information. They now believe the plane flown by the pilot was a deliberate criminal act to commit suicide. They came to these conclusion because of the following known information.

The plane flew in and out of military air space of at least 2 countries in order to avoid detection.

At one point the plane flew over Captaine's Shah's home town of Penang. Here they also believe Shah dipped his wings in a "farewell" salute while over his hometown. At this point, the plane's transponder was shut off.

They also believe the pilot was in control during the entire flight in order to do a controlled crash in the ocean. This would be over a hundred miles further south of the area they are still currently searching in order to "never be found again". Pieces of the plane have been found intact. If it was a direct "death" dive, this would have shattered in millions of pieces with nothing left. Instead of a 2 minute death dive, it would have been 9 minutes in which the plane would dive, regain control and dive again sort of in stages. Any experienced pilot could land on water (as the pilot did during the landing on the Hudson River)

Pilots have committed suicide before using planes, but has happened very rarely. At least 8 times that been documented in the entire history of aviation. ''This information was released yesterday, so I don't know if this has been posted earlier.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

dex — Tue, 15 May 2018 14:49:00 GMT

That is a very troubling conclusion.I wonder how he felt he could decide the fate of all of his passengers.I think he was a serial killer. or a mass murderer.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

Snoopp — Tue, 15 May 2018 15:39:58 GMT

I always thought the pilot may have been involved.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

mercyMe — Tue, 15 May 2018 16:12:30 GMT

@Snoopp wrote:
I always thought the pilot may have been involved.

I remember a news report years ago mentioned something happened in his personal life, and being a "man of honor" ... this is the action of what could occur.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

songbird — Tue, 15 May 2018 15:51:57 GMT

@dex wrote:
That is a very troubling conclusion.I wonder how he felt he could decide the fate of all of his passengers.I think he was a serial killer. or a mass murderer.

Malaysia has not responded. It's a Muslim country and has an extreme taboo of suicide. Even if the conclusion proves out be correct, they will not acknowledged it. Several years ago, an Egyptian airliner went down deliberately by the co pilot. We know because the voice data box was found. But Egyptians have still refused to accept it. As a result the law suits (many Americans were on it among other nationalities) have been stalled. Probably never to be resolved. If someone has committed suicide, honor killings would happen to his family.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

Susan in California — Tue, 15 May 2018 17:42:05 GMT

It has been an incredible story. Imagine taking all those lives with you

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

SydneyH — Tue, 15 May 2018 17:56:19 GMT

Suicide by pilot is still the most viable theory imo, it's happened before and more than likely will happen again.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

Happiness Is Inside JOB — Tue, 15 May 2018 18:34:25 GMT

I might not be thinking of the same story but is this the case where the co pilot left the cockpit? This was not a solo pilot flight was it?

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

San Antonio Gal — Tue, 15 May 2018 18:45:36 GMT

@Happiness Is Inside JOB wrote:
I might not be thinking of the same story but is this the case where the co pilot left the cockpit? This was not a solo pilot flight was it?

I was wondering about the co pilot myself. Out of all the articles I read yesterday, not one of them addressed where the co-pilot was when all this was going on. If someone read something about the co-pilot please chime in.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

songbird — Tue, 15 May 2018 19:18:43 GMT

@Happiness Is Inside JOB wrote:
I might not be thinking of the same story but is this the case where the co pilot left the cockpit? This was not a solo pilot flight was it?

I said the pilot. The investigators stress it was SOMEONE. Either the pilot or the co pilot. However, the co pilot was inexperienced. He was also engaged to be married. They are thinking the pilot for skill required in a controlled crash. The pilot was the one that had flight simulator in his home.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

songbird — Tue, 15 May 2018 19:17:36 GMT

@San Antonio Gal wrote:
@Happiness Is Inside JOB wrote:
I might not be thinking of the same story but is this the case where the co pilot left the cockpit? This was not a solo pilot flight was it?
I was wondering about the co pilot myself. Out of all the articles I read yesterday, not one of them addressed where the co-pilot was when all this was going on. If someone read something about the co-pilot please chime in.

Two pilots. The co pilot was very inexperienced. Shah was the one with the flight simulator. When suicides happen, it's usuallty one pilot going off to the bathroom, locked door etc. In the U.S. to prevent this most flights have 3 pilots.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

Lucky Charm — Tue, 15 May 2018 19:18:26 GMT

@Happiness Is Inside JOB wrote:
I might not be thinking of the same story but is this the case where the co pilot left the cockpit? This was not a solo pilot flight was it?

I don't think an airliner like that would only have one pilot ever. I could be wrong.

I do remember a flight where the co pilot or pilot was locked out of the cabin. That happened in Europe somewhere, I believe.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

songbird — Tue, 15 May 2018 19:33:39 GMT

@Lucky Charm wrote:
@Happiness Is Inside JOB wrote:
I might not be thinking of the same story but is this the case where the co pilot left the cockpit? This was not a solo pilot flight was it?
I don't think an airliner like that would only have one pilot ever. I could be wrong.

I do remember a flight where the co pilot or pilot was locked out of the cabin. That happened in Europe somewhere, I believe.

The suicide flight was the Egyption flight. Heck of a blow up afterwards. They got the flight recorder. Pilot went to the bathroom, Co pilot (alone now) locked the cab. Pilot was heard screaming to let him in. Co pilot repeated prayer over and over. Afterwards Egypt denied it was a sucide. Suicide is mortal sin in Islam. His family wouldd be cursed for generations for the suicide. Happened I think 1999 Last one was the plane in to a mountain. Young French pilot. 2015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

FrostyBabe1 — Tue, 15 May 2018 19:33:42 GMT

@songbird wrote:
@San Antonio Gal wrote:
@Happiness Is Inside JOB wrote:
I might not be thinking of the same story but is this the case where the co pilot left the cockpit? This was not a solo pilot flight was it?
I was wondering about the co pilot myself. Out of all the articles I read yesterday, not one of them addressed where the co-pilot was when all this was going on. If someone read something about the co-pilot please chime in.
Two pilots. The co pilot was very inexperienced. Shah was the one with the flight simulator. When suicides happen, it's usuallty one pilot going off to the bathroom, locked door etc. In the U.S. to prevent this most flights have 3 pilots.

Uh, no they don't. When one of the flight deck crew wants to us the lav, a flight attendant goes in to the cockpit until that person returns. And it's not to prevent pilot suicide, it's a post 9/11 security measure. Many, many years ago, there was a flight engineer position which was the third flight deck crew member, but those aircraft are long gone. You might see another pilot (even from a different airline) riding the jumpseat in the cockpit, but all they're doing is catching a ride.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

songbird — Tue, 15 May 2018 19:36:02 GMT

@FrostyBabe1 wrote:
@songbird wrote:
@San Antonio Gal wrote:
@Happiness Is Inside JOB wrote:
I might not be thinking of the same story but is this the case where the co pilot left the cockpit? This was not a solo pilot flight was it?
I was wondering about the co pilot myself. Out of all the articles I read yesterday, not one of them addressed where the co-pilot was when all this was going on. If someone read something about the co-pilot please chime in.
Two pilots. The co pilot was very inexperienced. Shah was the one with the flight simulator. When suicides happen, it's usuallty one pilot going off to the bathroom, locked door etc. In the U.S. to prevent this most flights have 3 pilots.
Uh, no they don't. When one of the flight deck crew wants to us the lav, a flight attendant goes in to the cockpit until that person returns. And it's not to prevent pilot suicide, it's a post 9/11 security measure. Many, many years ago, there was a flight engineer position which was the third flight deck crew member, but those aircraft are long gone. You might see another pilot (even from a different airline) riding the jumpseat in the cockpit, but all they're doing is catching a ride.

Perhaps I was thinking of a armed secuity person. El Al always has them. I don't know about the U.S. I don't see a steward in that room though. He/She could quickly overpowered.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

golding76 — Tue, 15 May 2018 20:07:57 GMT

When this flight went down, I was still working for the Federal Aviation Administration. One day a few of us in the office were discussing the various theories for the plane's apparent crash, and one of my colleagues who worked on the "pilot side" of the house said that he had received an interesting explanation of MH-370's mysterious disappearance. The theory of disapperance was written by a veteran and skilled pilot who used all the information available up to that point. (As I recall, this was about eight months after the plane diappeared from the sky.)

The pilot's best conjecture was that the plane was downed by "suicide by pilot."

I also recall that there was some talk about the pilot's possibly being gay, and that something might have happened to cause him to decide to kill himself. He was married and had children, if I recall correctly. Perhaps someone was going to blackmail him or something. His simulator routines were suspect.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

FrostyBabe1 — Tue, 15 May 2018 20:28:13 GMT

@songbird wrote:
@FrostyBabe1 wrote:
@songbird wrote:
@San Antonio Gal wrote:
@Happiness Is Inside JOB wrote:
I might not be thinking of the same story but is this the case where the co pilot left the cockpit? This was not a solo pilot flight was it?
I was wondering about the co pilot myself. Out of all the articles I read yesterday, not one of them addressed where the co-pilot was when all this was going on. If someone read something about the co-pilot please chime in.
Two pilots. The co pilot was very inexperienced. Shah was the one with the flight simulator. When suicides happen, it's usuallty one pilot going off to the bathroom, locked door etc. In the U.S. to prevent this most flights have 3 pilots.
Uh, no they don't. When one of the flight deck crew wants to us the lav, a flight attendant goes in to the cockpit until that person returns. And it's not to prevent pilot suicide, it's a post 9/11 security measure. Many, many years ago, there was a flight engineer position which was the third flight deck crew member, but those aircraft are long gone. You might see another pilot (even from a different airline) riding the jumpseat in the cockpit, but all they're doing is catching a ride.

Perhaps I was thinking of a armed secuity person. El Al always has them. I don't know about the U.S. I don't see a steward in that room though. He/She could quickly overpowered.

That would be a federal air marshall, and they're seated in the cabin, usually in first class. No one, including the airline, knows when they're going to appear to ride a flight until shortly ahead of time. I should know, I've been FAM'd out of 2B more times than I care to count. The presence of FAM's on any flight is completely random and they only ride a small percentage of them.

As for a flight attendant being overpowered, they are trained in self defense and I've met more than a few who are ex-military themselves. Don't presume that they're not able to defend themselves or the flight deck.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

golding76 — Tue, 15 May 2018 20:28:20 GMT

Also riding in that jump seat could be an FAA aviation safety inspector. They sit in the jump seat to observe and evaluate.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

lovesrecess — Tue, 15 May 2018 22:50:29 GMT

I don't know how they can possibly get into the head of the pilot and know for certain he wanted to kill himself and everyone else on the plane. I think they are so anxious to have closure on this horrific tragedy they are just blaming the pilot and now moving on. I don't think anyone will ever know for sure why the plane went down. My heart still aches for those families who lost their loved ones on this flight.

Re: MH370 plane reexaminded

golding76 — Tue, 15 May 2018 23:22:20 GMT

One thing I can assure you of is this. When an FAA aviation safety inspector (ASI) or the NTSB (composed of the most superior inspectors of the various modes of transportation) makes a determination of cause of an accident or incident, that determination has been arrived at only after the most careful, methodical and thorough investigation has been conducted. One case in point:

On 9/11, I reported at my usual hour to my FAA office at that time, which was situated beside Dulles International Airport. (I know I've told this story before, so skip if you know this experience of mine.)

After I was seated for about one-half hour, an ASI rushed from his cubicle toward our conference room where our office TV was located. As he ran past a row of cubicles, he yelled something about a phone call from his wife and that a plane had crashed into one of the Twin Towers.

All of us gathered in the conference room. During the first few minutes of this stunning event, the news kept reporting that the airplane that crashed was a small plane. All the ASIs in the room threw out their thoughts on how this might have happened. Some had NYC experience and spoke with more authority.

In not too long, the second airplane crashed into the second tower. An associative sort of thinker and an impulsive sort, I immediately yelled out, "Terrorists!" I will never forget what happened next. Every ASI in the room turned around and looked spikes at me and said, "No." I could not believe what I heard.

First, the reporters were still unsure about the size of the airplane. But what was most important was that ASIs do not arrive at any conclustion without going through all the steps they are trained to follow. Because I was still fairly new to working with FAAers, particularly the ASIs, I still did not know much of their nature or the "culture" there. After a few more years, I better understood that moment when I was alone thinking (and announcing) that terrorists had brought down the two towers.

When any trained aviation (or other mode of transpo) investigator gives a determination, you can rest assured that everything has been explored and investigated. Mechanical, protocol, behavioral, training, etc. Nothing is left unexamined. If pilot suicide is a conclusion, it is very likely so. That is because everything else has been eliminated, and pilot suicide is a known cause, sadly enough.