topic Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem? in Community Chat

Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

Yardlie — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 00:22:13 GMT

I didn't see this anywhere else on the boards, so I'm asking here. If it is on the boards, please direct me to it. This question has been all over online the last couple days. Supposedly, it is a second grade math question...but it is stumping most people. Now, I was not a math major, but I did go through one semester of calculus. Maybe my mind is beginning to go. What I want to know is, what did you get for an answer...and since when did they start teaching algebra in second grade?

Question: “There are 49 dogs signed up to compete in the dog show,” The question begins. “There are 36 more small dogs than large dogs signed up to compete. How many small dogs are signed up to compete?”

My obvious solution was the same as many other people: 49 total dogs minus 36 small dogs must equal 13 large dogs...so that leaves 36 small dogs. Seemed too easy, but it is a second grade question!!!

The correct answer I found online is:

What you’re doing is trying to solve for x. Think of large dogs as “x” and small dogs as “y.”

49 = x+y and y = x+36

So, combine the two equations and you get:

49 = x + x+36

49 = 2x + 36

13 = 2x

x = 6.5

y = 42.5

?????!!!!! Anyone care to clarify? (1) Why isn't the answer 13? (2) Since when do second graders solve for "x"? "How can you have a half a dog?" Thanks!

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

WenGirl42 — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 00:37:42 GMT

wrote:
I didn't see this anywhere else on the boards, so I'm asking here. If it is on the boards, please direct me to it. This question has been all over online the last couple days. Supposedly, it is a second grade math question...but it is stumping most people. Now, I was not a math major, but I did go through one semester of calculus. Maybe my mind is beginning to go. What I want to know is, what did you get for an answer...and since when did they start teaching algebra in second grade?

Question: “There are 49 dogs signed up to compete in the dog show,” The question begins. “There are 36 more small dogs than large dogs signed up to compete. How many small dogs are signed up to compete?”

My obvious solution was the same as many other people: 49 total dogs minus 36 small dogs must equal 13 large dogs...so that leaves 36 small dogs. Seemed too easy, but it is a second grade question!!!

The correct answer I found online is:

What you’re doing is trying to solve for x. Think of large dogs as “x” and small dogs as “y.”
49 = x+y and y = x+36
So, combine the two equations and you get:
49 = x + x+36
49 = 2x + 36
13 = 2x
x = 6.5
y = 42.5

?????!!!!! Anyone care to clarify? (1) Why isn't the answer 13? (2) Since when do second graders solve for "x"? "How can you have a half a dog?" Thanks!

Well I can't help with questions 2 or 3. But there can't be 13 small dogs, because then there would be more large dogs than small to make 49. And there can't be 36 small dogs, because that's not 36 more than the number of large dogs (given as 13). If there are 13 large dogs, you'd need 13+36=49 small dogs for that to be true. Which would give you 62 total dogs. Isn't math fun?

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

blackhole99 — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 00:38:59 GMT

It's a physical problem that can't be solved because you can't have half a dog. You can solve it for the numbers, but it doesn't make physical sense. It's just to show you how to solve a linear equation, but doesn't make sense physically. No wonder the kids hate math right out of the box.

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

sidsmom — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 00:53:43 GMT

My 2nd Grade detailed personality would be the one asking,

What kind of dogs were the small ones?

What kind of dogs were the big ones?

Where was this dog show?

What group were they competing in?

....and all the time the teacher would be patiently telling me,

’ that doesn’t matter with this situation’...and I would continue

asking the ‘backstory’ questions...I just have to know the whole story.

I like details but not analytical details.

I just wanna pet the dogs.

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

luvmybeetle — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 00:50:50 GMT

OK I get it but I think I'm confused. My grandson did have this kind of math in the second grade. Even my daughter couldn't help him.

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

nomless — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 00:52:42 GMT

@Yardlie

The number 13 answers the question "There are 49 dogs in the show. 36 are small dogs. How many are large?" .(13 +36 = 49)

But that is not the question that was asked.

The question is "Total dogs = 49, and there are 36 more small dogs than large dogs. How many dogs of each type?"

Note that if you use your answer 36 small and 13 large, although there are 49 total dogs, there are only 23 more small dogs than large dogs, not 36. (36-13=23.)

2x + 36 = 49 is the correct equation. Each group has x dogs and the small dog group has 36 additional dogs.

So solving for x, 2x=13, and x = 6.5

So the number of large dogs = 6.5

And the number of small = 6.5 + 36 = 42.5

42.5 + 6.5 = 49, the total number of dogs

And 42.5 - 6.5 = 36. Now there are 36 more small dogs than large dogs.

It was a bad choice to use dogs for this example because you can't have half a dog. Sandwiches would have been a better object to use.

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

WenGirl42 — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 00:55:46 GMT

@nomless I would like to be a judge at the sandwich show

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

nomless — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 00:57:06 GMT

wrote:
@nomless I would like to be a judge at the sandwich show

@WenGirl42, lol.😂

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

KitTkat — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 01:13:22 GMT

To be even more confusing, what if all the large dogs ate half the sandwiches, leaving the remaining sandwiches for the small dogs. How many sandwiches did the small dogs eat?

I remember questions like these, but weren't they more fifth or sixth grade questions?

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

sidsmom — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 01:39:38 GMT

wrote:
To be even more confusing, what if all the large dogs ate half the sandwiches, leaving the remaining sandwiches for the small dogs. How many sandwiches did the small dogs eat?

I remember questions like these, but weren't they more fifth or sixth grade questions?

I like the way you think!

What kind of sandwiches? Hee

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

KitTkat — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 01:46:21 GMT

@sidsmom wrote:
@KitTkat wrote:
To be even more confusing, what if all the large dogs ate half the sandwiches, leaving the remaining sandwiches for the small dogs. How many sandwiches did the small dogs eat?
I like the way you think!

What kind of sandwiches? Hee

Now that's the confusing part, 1/3 of the sandwiches that the large dogs ate were ham and cheese, while the remaining 2/3 were roast beef. But only 3/5 of the sandwiches that she small dogs ate were roast beef, so now we have to find out the percentage of ham and cheese that the small dogs ate!

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

Twoaces — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 01:59:55 GMT

I am sitting here on the sofa with my one small dog and my one large dog. After reading all this, we all have headaches. Maybe we all need to eat a sandwich. Just one. Divided proportionally according to size, age, and weight. Aargh! Help!!!

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

Yardlie — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 02:10:20 GMT

Oh, you ladies made me LOL! I like your answers better than the correct answer. And yes...a second grader would be asking things like, "What kind of dogs?" I guess I see too much Judge Judy, because I was thinking that some of the big dogs might eat some of the little dogs (Heaven forbid!). Of course, if there were sandwiches, that scenario could be avoided. Wow...I would be a failure in second grade if I were in it today. Thanks much for your input. Actually, I think the teacher's question was poorly written.

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

LTT1 — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 03:10:54 GMT

wrote:
I didn't see this anywhere else on the boards, so I'm asking here. If it is on the boards, please direct me to it. This question has been all over online the last couple days. Supposedly, it is a second grade math question...but it is stumping most people. Now, I was not a math major, but I did go through one semester of calculus. Maybe my mind is beginning to go. What I want to know is, what did you get for an answer...and since when did they start teaching algebra in second grade?

Question: “There are 49 dogs signed up to compete in the dog show,” The question begins. “There are 36 more small dogs than large dogs signed up to compete. How many small dogs are signed up to compete?”

My obvious solution was the same as many other people: 49 total dogs minus 36 small dogs must equal 13 large dogs...so that leaves 36 small dogs. Seemed too easy, but it is a second grade question!!!

The correct answer I found online is:

What you’re doing is trying to solve for x. Think of large dogs as “x” and small dogs as “y.”
49 = x+y and y = x+36
So, combine the two equations and you get:
49 = x + x+36
49 = 2x + 36
13 = 2x
x = 6.5
y = 42.5

?????!!!!! Anyone care to clarify? (1) Why isn't the answer 13? (2) Since when do second graders solve for "x"? "How can you have a half a dog?" Thanks!

@Yardlie

IMO, you are right about the fact that one cannot have .5 or 1/2 a dog.

The reason one cannot just subtract is because the problem states that there are 36 MORE small dogs than large dogs.

it is stupid to expect second graders to do algebra, even though they are probably using pictures of dogs and assigning the quantities with letters: d and D.

This problem may have been thrown into the annual assessment as one of those “trial” problems that the testing company will use to see if kids can do them.

DD (age 34 now) was taught statistics problems in 2nd and 3rd. The teachers told me that blah Blah blah to establish concepts only. She had trouble remembering how to do long division so I really don’t think fast and surface math in elementary is best.💗❤️💙💜

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

trenet — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 04:11:54 GMT

wrote:
I am sitting here on the sofa with my one small dog and my one large dog. After reading all this, we all have headaches. Maybe we all need to eat a sandwich. Just one. Divided proportionally according to size, age, and weight. Aargh! Help!!!

@Twoaces

I agree headache material. What kind of small dog and what kind of large dog are you sitting with?

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

trenet — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 04:17:40 GMT

I had trouble with subtraction in 2nd grade. The borrowing thing threw me, especially since I was taught I shouldn’t borrow things!

Later, with story problems, I mainly remember they usually involved a train going to Cleveland! Why Cleveland? Hope the dogs aren’t travelling to Cleveland. Maybe that’s how they got the half dog in the problem, one dog got hit by the train! Oh noooo!

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

tedEbear — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 04:26:57 GMT

This is why 8th grade math teacher gave me a D-, just so I wouldn't have to take Algebra again.(I actually failed).

I wonder if they could be Hot Dogs. Small dogs and Big dogs so you could have one half.--------------tedEbear

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

BeckiWV — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 04:50:30 GMT

I hate algebra of every kind. I hate Common Core math. I hate that little second graders, or anyone, have to solve problems like this.

I remember those reading problems that start out with a train going to Cleveland. It seems like they ended with "what color was the bear?" Lolol.

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

qualitygal — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 10:29:45 GMT

I'm so glad to be retired.

Re: Who Can Explain This "Second Grade" Math Problem?

Sweetbay magnolia — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 14:35:54 GMT

I remember being taught (as opposed to learning) addition and subtraction in 2nd grade. Construction paper airplanes with our names on them flying around the room and advancing when we got right answers. We may have had to do the answering orally.

I still count on my fingers with no shame. And I still have 10 fingers.

I thought that problem was hard. I still do not understand it completely, nor do I care, but I'd wonder how effective that is for seven year olds, to learn what?