topic Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas in Community Chat

Russian Orthodox Christmas

traveler — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 17:52:28 GMT

I had several Russian Orthodox students in Alaska. They celebrate Christmas in January. I was told they don't start shopping until December 26.

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

traveler — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 16:00:49 GMT

It is January 7, 2018 this year. So Christmas isn't over for eeryone.

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

Carmie — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 16:30:00 GMT

January 7 is Orthodox Christmas and is celebrated on that day every year.. Orthodox Christians follow the Julian calendar that was in existence before Christ was born and did not make the change to the new Georgian calendar in 1582 by the Pope. Orthodox Christians do not consider the Pope their religious leader.

My DH is Orthodox Christian, but not Russian. There are many Orthodox Christians all over the world.

For this reason, many people and whole communities do not take their Christmas decorations down until after January 7.

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

happycat — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 16:38:10 GMT

Thats interesting, @traveler and @Carmie.

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

stevieb — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 16:40:11 GMT

Actually, Christmas isn't over until Epiphany on January 6th. Personally, while I observe the date most people do, I prefer the Orthodox date. It serves to extend the 'holliday' season that begins on Thanksgiving for most of us and increases the chances of a wintry celebration.

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

cherry — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 16:40:42 GMT

Some Orthodox certainly shop early. My hairdresser is one of them.

It used to be traditional to leave all decorations up until 12th night also called , the Feast of the Epiphany, (Jan 7)or as some call it Little Christmas.

Decorations were real, and people really didn't decorate until almost Christmas ,so you couldn't have decorated like they do now. The stuff would have been a fire hazard

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

cherry — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 16:45:36 GMT

Some Orthodox are certainly in communion with Rome

snip

Most people are not aware that the “Catholic Church” is actually comprised of twenty-three independent Catholic Churches, all in union with the pope. The Western, or Latin Catholic Church, is so large, however, that many people, even Catholics, are completely unaware of the other twenty-two churches, which make up the Eastern Branch. (Some have from only a few thousand members to a few million.)

Originally, there was only one denomination… the Catholic Church (the word Catholic meaning “universal”). However, there were five cities that early on were singled out as being important centers of Christianity. They were Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, and of course, Rome. Each developed its own unique traditions and liturgy, but ALL shared a common theology and were in communion with each other and the Bishop of Rome, known as the Pope. However, about 1000 years ago, due to a variety of unfortunate problems, the other four cities, allied with the Byzantine Empire, mutually broke off from Rome, forming the various Eastern Orthodox Churches. Although doctrinally, they are virtually identical to Catholics, they refuse to acknowledge that the pope is more than a “first among equals”. (A couple groups broke of much earlier in the 400s AD also, to form what are known as the Oriental Orthodox Churches).

What has happened is that over time, some portions of each of the various Orthodox groups have decided to reconcile with the Catholic Church and come back into communion with Rome. When they do, they are allowed to keep all of their traditions and much of their independence, although they acknowledge the authority of the Pope. They become truly Catholic, in that anyone from ANY branch of the Catholic Church can participate in the liturgy and ceremonies of any OTHER branch of the Catholic Church. The only two Eastern groups that never fell out of communion with the Catholic Church were the Maronite Catholic Church, and the Italo-Albanian Catholic Church. So… for every branch of the Orthodox Churches that are NOT in communion with Rome, there is a corresponding and virtually identical branch of the Eastern Catholic Church that IS in communion with Rome. Since their customs and liturgies date from before the Council of Trent, they are allowed to remain.

The following liturgies are used by the Eastern Catholic Churches:

The Liturgy of St. Basil
The Chaldean Mass
The Order of the Divine and Holy Liturgy of Our Father Among the Saints Gregory the Theologian (or Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts)
The Liturgy of St. James
The Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom
The Liturgy of St. Mark
The Holy Qorbono

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

ROMARY — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 17:13:14 GMT

CHERRY: So interesting that I'm going to print your informative post! ........ I've often wondered why I've always had an urge to attend a Russian Orthodox Church's service/Mass. Sometimes we gravitate toward something that secretly ties us to it.

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

TenderMercies — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 18:15:50 GMT

I am Russian Orthodox, and my church is one of a few that still celebrates Christmas on January 7. Most Russian churches have opted to no longer follow the Julian calendar, and celebrate Christmas on December 25. It is much easier to just celebrate with the rest of the world. When I was born, my mother, who is Catholic and Polish, did not belong to a parish. My father, who is Russian and Russian Orthodox, belonged to his family's church, so that was the only option for me in terms of baptism. My parents divorced when I was 3. Growing up, it was wonderful, because I had 2 Christmases. I would celebrate Christmas, as normal, on 12/25 with my mother's side of the family, then on January 6, I would go to my paternal grandparent's home and celebrate Russian Christmas. While Russian Christmas in January 7, the real celebration occurs on January 6. That night, we would have the traditional Christmas Eve dinner (more on that later if anyone is interested), go to church, then there would be a massive party at the house during which all of my family and grandfather's employees would be invited. My most special childhood memories are centered around those Russian Christmas Eves. Now, everyone is dead, the house has been sold, and my January 6 usually involves me lighting the tree and listening to grandma's old Russian Christmas carol album which I had professionally converted to CD and sent copies to the remaining family a few years ago.

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

Oznell — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 18:46:18 GMT

Would love to hear about your traditional Christmas eve dinner, and customs, @TenderMercies.

Although Protestant, we always observed the full twelve days of Christmas. My mother scrupulously kept up our decorations till then. She also told me that it was ancient custom in some quarters to give gifts on both New Year's and on January 6. Part of her family was originally from both northern and southern Ireland, were both "Scotch-Irish" and Irish, and I think they preserved a lot ot their feeling for the 12 days of Christmas even long after the earlier generations emigrated and scattered to the New World...

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

ALRATIBA — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 19:13:16 GMT

For Catholics ... Advent begins 4 Sundays before Christmas and lasts until Christmas Eve. Christmas Season lasts from December 25 to Epiphany. Twelve Days of Christmas are the days between December 25 and Epiphany.

(For those unaware ... the Epiphany commemorates the visit of the Magi. There's a new book Mystery of the Magi, the Quest to Identify the Three Wise Men by Fr. Dwight Longenecker.)

Our customs ... no decorations until Christmas Eve and stayed until Epiphany. During Advent ... we lit the Advent Wreath each night and when we were children - kept an Advent Calendar.

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

TenderMercies — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 19:27:11 GMT

@Oznell wrote:
Would love to hear about your traditional Christmas eve dinner, and customs, @TenderMercies.

Although Protestant, we always observed the full twelve days of Christmas. My mother scrupulously kept up our decorations till then. She also told me that it was ancient custom in some quarters to give gifts on both New Year's and on January 6. Part of her family was originally from both northern and southern Ireland, were both "Scotch-Irish" and Irish, and I think they preserved a lot ot their feeling for the 12 days of Christmas even long after the earlier generations emigrated and scattered to the New World...

@Oznell My father's side of the family came from Transylvania. Most people from the late 1800's who were Russian Orthodox were actually from the outskirts of Russia proper, because Katherine the Great kind of pushed a lot of "tribes" to the hinterlands. My family's people were known as Lemkos. They were Carpathian mountain folk. Most of the people who immigrated and settled in the small town I come from in Northeast PA came from the same region. The reason they populated that specific area in PA was because of the coal mining industry. In fact, I was born in a town called "Carbon"dale.

On Russian Christmas Eve, my grandmother would always make sure that the dining room table had 3 layers of tablecloths. Between the 2 base layers, she would put a layer of hay to symbolize the manger, and then the top, third layer would be a beautiful, lace tablecloth. In the center of the table would be a simple candle and a small bowl with peeled cloves of garlic resting on a bed of salt. This was to ward off evil spirits (remember who comes from Transylvania!). The meal would be several courses that you would eat out of the same bowl. These courses would consist of a primary dish called Keselitsa (prounounced KESS-ah-LITCH-ah) which is basically fermented oatmeal, sauerkraut and peas, mushroom soup, whiting, prune pierogies, and fried cabbage. After dinner and cleanup, everyone would get ready and go off to church which would last 2 hours. When we would return home, the dining room table would be set up a with a buffet with everything from meatballs to chicken wings, and the distant relatives, friends and my grandfather's employees would arrive. They would eat and drink the night away. At midnight, my cousin, Jerry, would show up dressed as Santa Claus. I would put on my red onesie pajamas and a santa hat and serve as his elf as we would pass out little gifts to all the guests. This would usually be something like potpourri sachets for the women and cigars for the men. I would eventually nod off and be carried upstairs and fall asleep to the laughter and glasses clinking downstairs. On Christmas morning, we would all open our gifts and have breakfast. There wouldn't be any more festivities for the day, as Christmas Eve was the big event. My aunt sent me a couple pictures last week that were taken in the late 1980's. The first is my grandmother's dining room table which looks like it is in transition from dinner to the buffet for the party. You can see directly into the living room where the tree is shining. The second is the tree itself on Russian Christmas Eve.

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

Oznell — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 20:24:56 GMT

FABULOUS, @TenderMercies, I have rarely heard of any more fascinating and intricate Christmas customs! The region of your family-- it rings a faint bell with me. I'm wondering If I'm remembering that Charles Bronson had a similar heritage? I know his was a rich and interesting background too, and I even think his family might have ended up in Pennsylvania. "Bronson" of couse was not his real name...

Everything, the symbolic three tablecloths, the bed of salt with garlic, the rich, unusual foods-- I hope all this is getting transmitted to the latest generations of your family, it is such a detailed, precious heritage.

Thank you for these priceless reminiscences.

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

traveler — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 21:39:43 GMT

In Alaska we have many Russian Orthodox churches with the domes, one just a block from my house.

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

ROMARY — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 01:35:19 GMT

Many things in life to learn about.

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

sfnative — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 19:57:21 GMT

@cherry wrote:
Some Orthodox are certainly in communion with Rome

snip

Most people are not aware that the “Catholic Church” is actually comprised of twenty-three independent Catholic Churches, all in union with the pope. The Western, or Latin Catholic Church, is so large, however, that many people, even Catholics, are completely unaware of the other twenty-two churches, which make up the Eastern Branch. (Some have from only a few thousand members to a few million.)
Originally, there was only one denomination… the Catholic Church (the word Catholic meaning “universal”). However, there were five cities that early on were singled out as being important centers of Christianity. They were Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, and of course, Rome. Each developed its own unique traditions and liturgy, but ALL shared a common theology and were in communion with each other and the Bishop of Rome, known as the Pope. However, about 1000 years ago, due to a variety of unfortunate problems, the other four cities, allied with the Byzantine Empire, mutually broke off from Rome, forming the various Eastern Orthodox Churches. Although doctrinally, they are virtually identical to Catholics, they refuse to acknowledge that the pope is more than a “first among equals”. (A couple groups broke of much earlier in the 400s AD also, to form what are known as the Oriental Orthodox Churches).
What has happened is that over time, some portions of each of the various Orthodox groups have decided to reconcile with the Catholic Church and come back into communion with Rome. When they do, they are allowed to keep all of their traditions and much of their independence, although they acknowledge the authority of the Pope. They become truly Catholic, in that anyone from ANY branch of the Catholic Church can participate in the liturgy and ceremonies of any OTHER branch of the Catholic Church. The only two Eastern groups that never fell out of communion with the Catholic Church were the Maronite Catholic Church, and the Italo-Albanian Catholic Church. So… for every branch of the Orthodox Churches that are NOT in communion with Rome, there is a corresponding and virtually identical branch of the Eastern Catholic Church that IS in communion with Rome. Since their customs and liturgies date from before the Council of Trent, they are allowed to remain.
The following liturgies are used by the Eastern Catholic Churches:
The Liturgy of St. Basil
The Chaldean Mass
The Order of the Divine and Holy Liturgy of Our Father Among the Saints Gregory the Theologian (or Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts)
The Liturgy of St. James
The Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom
The Liturgy of St. Mark
The Holy Qorbono

I know this is a humongous quote, but wanted others to know to which post I referred.

The above is not entirely accurate, in a rather big way. There was a huge schism between the Eastern Church - Justinian - and Rome - which had everything to do with "The Holy Ghost or The Holy Spirit." This wasn't just a side-bar in theological musings amongst each Church's legal represenatives, it was a "get down, get serious" argument which lasted for a LONG time and created an everlasting schism between the two Churches.

It is rather mind-boggeling that the author of the piece above failed in his/her research to state actual fact, which equates to quite a blatant difference between the 2 Churches.

(No personal insult intended, @cherry.)

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

cherry — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 20:02:44 GMT

@sfnative I posted this because it didn't get into dogma, which we are not allowed to do here

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

sfnative — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 20:46:43 GMT

@TenderMercies wrote:
I am Russian Orthodox, and my church is one of a few that still celebrates Christmas on January 7. Most Russian churches have opted to no longer follow the Julian calendar, and celebrate Christmas on December 25. It is much easier to just celebrate with the rest of the world. When I was born, my mother, who is Catholic and Polish, did not belong to a parish. My father, who is Russian and Russian Orthodox, belonged to his family's church, so that was the only option for me in terms of baptism. My parents divorced when I was 3. Growing up, it was wonderful, because I had 2 Christmases. I would celebrate Christmas, as normal, on 12/25 with my mother's side of the family, then on January 6, I would go to my paternal grandparent's home and celebrate Russian Christmas. While Russian Christmas in January 7, the real celebration occurs on January 6. That night, we would have the traditional Christmas Eve dinner (more on that later if anyone is interested), go to church, then there would be a massive party at the house during which all of my family and grandfather's employees would be invited. My most special childhood memories are centered around those Russian Christmas Eves. Now, everyone is dead, the house has been sold, and my January 6 usually involves me lighting the tree and listening to grandma's old Russian Christmas carol album which I had professionally converted to CD and sent copies to the remaining family a few years ago.

@TenderMercies

Hi Tender Mercies,

I so enjoyed reading your post, as my grandfather was from Omsk, was an officer in the Russian Royal Navy (a White Russian vs Bolshevik) and had a terrifying flight with crew in a mutinied ship out of the port city of Vladivostok, after the slaughter had begun (his parent shot dead in their large merchant's store and his brother hung by the neck on a lamp post). He ended up having to stay in the Philipines for several years before he was granted immigration status into the U.S.

His sponsor, who also had a truck driving job waiting for him, brought him to San Francisco, where he settled for good and was where I was eventually born. SF had/has a wonderful Russian community, both Orthodox and Jewish. Always made weekly visits with my grandmother to her favorite Russian bakery to purchase favorites, especially at Christmas and Easter - Orthodox.

Like you, I enjoyed having 2 Christmases and 2 Easters. When I was a kid, I thought that was the best! However, my Grandfather, Andrei Gregorovich (first and middle names) taught me how to eat certain things. You always put sour cream on your pancakes. This I learned at my first overnight with them when I was 3. I still recall this breakfast, as I sat next to him and followed his every word and instruction.

Then everyone needs to understand Russian parties. Russians like to party. I mean REALLY party. Everyone gets dressed up to the 9s. All the women wear fancy and sparkly dresses, as the Russians all seem to like sparkles. Then there was a time during the evening when the Russian folk dances would be played and all the couples would enter the dance floor in my grandparents huge rumpus room with wet bar and perimeter seating. What elegance in their steps! Even the men danced as though trained. And all of the toasting! My grandparents had more shot glasses than anyone in SF, I used to think. It seems my grandfather would get the volka out every 10 minutes, fill everyone's shot glass, make a very meaningful toast and "Nastrovia," - Cheers to us. Us kids were given shot glasses and sat at our own table in the Florida room and each had a small bottle of 7-Up. My grandfather always took the time to come over with those shot glasses and 7-Up, would do the initial fill of our little glasses and would have us toast "Nastrovia!!!" and we would all yell it! Then he would return to his guests and we would keep Nastroviaing until we ran out of 7-Up! About 30 minutes later we would be told to go upstairs so the party could really begin. We ended our evening by playing games.

The next day was Russian Christmas buffet day! Most items on the table were Russian, food specific to Christmas (or Easter), but I always headed straight-away for the pickled herring and would stand there side-by-side with my grandfather looking at 5-6 varities of pickled herring, he trying to convince me to "try a new one this year." We always opened with a small bowl of pelmeni soup, even though it was a buffet, as my grandmother seemd to think if we didn't have it, we would not have good luck in the new year. I always loved and still make the very humble Peasant's Wilted Cabbage (a long shred, vinegar, salt, pour boiled water over and let marinate in a glass bowl-covered-for a few days; and, marinated vegetables. We always had a huge platter of various piroshki, plus pirog (lg pan version of same, but drier - don't really care for it). Still love making piroshki on occasions, especially now that I have an oven with a "Proof" setting. (There is a Silicon Valley story about the family recipe for the cabbage which I must tell some day.)

Pastries are a huge part of Russian holiday customs. I still make kulich and pashka for Easter and share it with neighbors who are Russian. Kulich is made in my house using 1 and 2 lb coffee tins (hard to find these days, if you're looking for one) and has sultanas and blanched almonds in it. After baking, is tall with a round dome. When cool, a royal icing is applied to the top, allowed to drizzle down the sides and round sprinkles immediatey tossed on top. It is typically served by making round slices from the bottom up and is great with butter and even better warm. Taste is a bit similar to pannatone.

I really need to stop here, or this thing will never stop. In the Family Cookbook I created for my caughter in 2002, included were all of the recipes from both sides of the family. Every single Russian recipe, which are all family recipes from the old country, are so very precious to me, I didn't want my daughter and future generations to miss out on our heritage, because the kitchen carries forth so much of who we were in past generations.

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

jaxs mom — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 21:39:43 GMT

Christmas isn't over for people that actually celebrate the Christmas season, which starts Christmas day. It doesn't end the day after Christmas.

Re: Russian Orthodox Christmas

cherry — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 21:48:18 GMT

Christmastide lasts for quite a while, until candlemas, which is Feb 2. Then its carnival ,and finally lent