topic Re: Thanksgiving in Community Chat

Thanksgiving

Moonchilde — Fri, 10 Nov 2017 23:52:30 GMT

There are always various threads about all aspects of Thanksgiving each year. I’m always kind of surprised when those who were not born in the US but have come to live here say they “don’t celebrate” Thanksgiving because it’s such an American holiday (I have not found that most foreign-born people that I’ve known feel this way, but some do).

I guess I might understand, if immigrant adults and children are immersed in the First Thanksgiving myth (it IS a myth), Pigrims, Native Americans, etc. then you could think of it as “American”, but honestly, it isn’t.

Early on, there were many “days of thanksgiving” by colonists. But there was no official “Thanksgiving” day until Abraham Lincoln created one in 1863. And then, because it was an idea of Lincoln’s, most Southerners refused it as a holiday or a celebration for many years. So, it hasn’t been some hallowed, nationally celebrated founding holiday all along at all.

But to me, wherever people were born or whenever they came here, setting aside a special day each year to remind ourselves to be thankful for what we have every day Is a universal idea/thought. I’m sure that people in every country have festivals, holidays, and periods of being grateful and thankful for what they have; it’s not an American concept. There are other Western countries who have national days of thanksgiving. It’s not about the Pilgrims and the First Thanksgiving, it’s about being thankful for whatever, period. I think pretty much anyone can embrace that, and I can only think of one exception (later).

It’s become, in the 20th and 21st centuries, a time for family to gather, if/when possible, and have a meal in love and thankfulness of being able to be together, in safety and warmth. Whatever else they are thankful for is as individual as every one of us.

Several immigrants I know have said that Thanksgiving is one of their favorite times because...who isn’t thankful for something, especially their family? It’s an idea we can all relate to. It’s an inclusive holiday by nature. It doesn’t really matter if turkey & stuffing are on the table or tikka masala & samosas.

YES, Native Americans have negative feelings about Thanksgiving, and the way “the story” has come down through history with the sanitized version of the First Thanksgiving and all the fairy tale stuff they tell first-graders. I understand those feelings, I “get” them, and I sympathize. A myth was born, full of misconceptions, at the expense of the profound gratitude we should have towards the Native Americans without whom the Mayflower settlers would have all surely died.

I can only hope that Native Americans will come to understand that those who celebrate Thanksgiving today also celebrate the help and wisdom native peoples gave us, and continue to give us. We don’t forget that there wouldn’t have been that “first” day of thanksgiving without them, and we honor them too - at least, I do.

Re: Thanksgiving

Annabellethecat66 — Fri, 10 Nov 2017 23:51:46 GMT

@Moonchilde Thank you for that lovely informative post. My great grandmother was a full Cherokee Indian. Her daughter, my Father's mother raised me. She taught me so many ways to heal, etc rather than just suck down a pill.

This is going to be hard to believe, but my great grandmother was 114 when she died. My grandmother had in her big chest a newspaper that told about her. My brother, niece and several other family members remembered seeing it.

My guess now is that it was probably an estimate since there is no real record of her birth. The article did say that she started getting teeth and that her eyesight started improving. I do remember that.

Remember, that was a long time ago as I am now 71. I haven't been able to find out anything on the internet about it.

Re: Thanksgiving

Moonchilde — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 00:00:23 GMT

@Annabellethecat66, one of my great-grandmothers was also Native American, though I don’t know if she was full or half. I’ve tried to trace genealogically but run into a brick wall. I do know it’s not “just” a family story, but true.

Well before I ever knew that (I only found out in my 20s), I admired and was interested in NA customs and culture; I have been since I can remember.

Re: Thanksgiving

Annabellethecat66 — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 00:26:02 GMT

Our library has an entire room where you can go and look up ancestry. I've never been there but I have friends who are librarians.

If you're interested most library's have similar rooms (so I'm told). Most people never go to librarys anymore. I used to love taking my girls to the library.

I don't go anymore. You might start there if you're interested.

Re: Thanksgiving

stuyvesant — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 01:02:12 GMT

@Moonchilde wrote:
@Annabellethecat66, one of my great-grandmothers was also Native American, though I don’t know if she was full or half. I’ve tried to trace genealogically but run into a brick wall. I do know it’s not “just” a family story, but true.

Well before I ever knew that (I only found out in my 20s), I admired and was interested in NA customs and culture; I have been since I can remember.
____________

How do you know "it's not 'just' a family story, but true."

I've always been interested in Native American customs and culture, and I'm Irish through and through. They speak to me, but when my bones speak to me, I take Aleeve.

I just signed up for a DNA test from Ancestry.com. I think you've spoken about how you took these DNA tests. Didn't they solve these questions for you?

Re: Thanksgiving

Moonchilde — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 01:10:23 GMT

@Annabellethecat66,I’ve been doing research on Ancestry dotcom for many years. Sometimes, you just reach a dead end.

Re: Thanksgiving

Barbara-QVC — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 01:13:41 GMT

This post has been removed by QVC because it is argumentative

Re: Thanksgiving

Annabellethecat66 — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 01:17:36 GMT

@Moonchilde Don't I know it (about the dead end). In my family I reached the dead end almost before it got started.

It's really frustrating because there's even an entire town named after my late husband's family. He was the last direct decendant from them. There are many with the last name but he was the last male.

My daughter was able to go all the way back to before his family came over from England.

My maiden name is very plain with many people having it.

Re: Thanksgiving

Moonchilde — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 01:29:34 GMT

@Annabellethecat66, at this investigational point I only have the US census as my primary guide. As you know, the older you get the more those older than you aren’t there any more to ask. And when you throw in the things that happen in families - divorces, remarriages, multiple step families, and etc - even if people were around to ask, you might not get the truth, or get one person’s version.

Something you might try - Ancestry dotcom (I’m sure the others would have similar) has areas where you can ask questions about surnames and specific lines. I asked on both sides, and did connect with some relatives I didn’t know I had - but I waited years for the right people to see my enquiries. I had given up hope of hearing anything when I did at last; it was cool 😎

Re: Thanksgiving

Annabellethecat66 — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 01:40:33 GMT

@Moonchilde Thanks for the info. Incidentally, I very much enjoyed you post. I think you did an excellent job.

Re: Thanksgiving

Still keeper of the koi — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 02:04:02 GMT

I am 1/2 native american,Schaticoke, While I come from granddaughter of famous chiefs., my struggle was not theirs,my brothers use the given names, me my white name,they speak in native tongue, me english.Those old ways and angers are long gone.We now seek like everyone else peace.To think a native nation holds the deeds done against the past in contempt is a fairy tale. Anytime people give thanks is peaceful to the soul...Native Americans practice the art of thanks everyday to the mother of all, to the creator.When we put names on our selves we separate ourselves further...We are Americans, not separate groups... We need to live together, and respect traditions. We all have a human struggle...MaryAnne,ps my great,great ,great grandfather the was the first NA Vetern who fought with the patriots for this land,a monument is in our town recognized in 1940s after many, many years... proud to be an American..

Re: Thanksgiving

september — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 02:18:24 GMT

Have not read all the responses, but my daughter's boyfriend's family is from the UK...and they love Thanksgiving ...maybe more than I do!

Re: Thanksgiving

Moonchilde — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 02:26:00 GMT

Thank you for your post, @Still keeper of the koi.

It’s very welcome to hear that there are Native Americans who don’t “hold it against” European colonists and their descendants. At this time of year, we tend to hear the opposite more than your POV.

I’ve always found it very moving how many Native Americans have gravitated towards serving in the military, and how so many pow wows and gatherings begin with a salute/honoring their veterans over all else.

Re: Thanksgiving

Moonchilde — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 02:30:50 GMT

@september, it’s interesting that our Thanksgiving (including keeping the exact US day) is becoming so popular in the UK (I’ve done some reading up). I think it’s cool :-)

Re: Thanksgiving

toja — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 03:26:40 GMT

@Moonchilde

I wasn't born in this country, I came here as an adult, so I add my 2 cents...

I celebrate Thanksgiving, always have. You are right, it's an inclusive holiday, and very easy to embrace but I have to say that as much as I like it, I will never feel it the same way as all those who celebrated it since they were children...

Like any holiday, it's the family, memories, traditions, food, smells that we remember and accumulate over the years that make it special, and I missed all of that

So maybe those who tell you that they don't celebrate Thanksgiving actually mean that they don't have the same emotional attachment to it like Americans who were born here do.

Re: Thanksgiving

Moonchilde — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 03:45:32 GMT

@toja, thank you so much for your post!

Yes, I’m sure that it’s different for those who came to the US later in life to celebrate any holiday they didn’t celebrate as children; you (and they) will make your own history through the years. As you say, you appreciate the holiday as you experience it now, and it will be for your children and grandchildren to make the “from childhood” memories.

And yes, I totally understand about the emotional attachment - that takes many years to have.

But the idea of having a special day just to be thankful for what we have, and to perhaps feel some sadness for those less fortunate anywhere and everywhere, is a Good Thing, however you feel it :-)

Re: Thanksgiving

tansy — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 03:59:10 GMT

My mother was a British war bride and disliked the holiday thoroughly. Her MIL, my grandma, was an overbearing woman who quickly dumped Thanksgiving dinner on her, plus she and my grandpa stayed with us for several nights.

Re: Thanksgiving

Fiero Woman — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 04:57:53 GMT

As a part native American I have always celebrated Thanksgiving as a day of thanks for all the blessing that have been received and to help a familyor families who have not been so blessed. My Cherokee Grandmother also observed Thanksgiving in the same way. To her, it was a family day and a day to enjoy each other and our blessings and blessings weren't always material. I have continued that heritage to this day.

Re: Thanksgiving

Moonchilde — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 06:28:35 GMT

@Fiero Woman wrote:
As a part native American I have always celebrated Thanksgiving as a day of thanks for all the blessing that have been received and to help a familyor families who have not been so blessed. My Cherokee Grandmother also observed Thanksgiving in the same way. To her, it was a family day and a day to enjoy each other and our blessings and blessings weren't always material. I have continued that heritage to this day.

@Fiero Woman - lovely :-)

Re: Thanksgiving

Cakers3 — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 13:24:44 GMT

For those seeking documentation of Native American ancestors in this country-Native Americans were not identified in any federal census from 1790-1840.

Native Americans living in the general population were first identified in 1860.

Fire destroyed the records from 1890.

From 1900 Native Americans on reservations and in the general populations both were identified for the first time.

This explains why records are missing in ancestry searches and can deter finding Native American roots in those centuries.