topic Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education in Community Chat

Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

lolakimono — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:00:23 GMT

You can read the article in its entirety here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/06/16/three-worrisome-trends-in-u-s-higher-education/?tid=ss_fb-bottom&utm_term=.60d7ddeb1f87

...

The rich keep getting richer. Combined, the 20 wealthiest private universities in the United States hold about $250 billion in assets. That accounts for a staggering 70 percent of the all the wealth of private colleges and universities, according to a new study by Moody’s Investors Services.

That wealth is likely only to grow as the richest colleges raise money at a faster clip than anyone else. Among colleges that collected more than $100 million in donations in 2016, fundraising has jumped by 22 percent over the last four years. Among those that raised less than $10 million, donations went up just 4 percent.

...

Small colleges without deep pockets are struggling to find their footing. Nearly one third of small colleges operated with a budget deficit last year, according to Moody’s, up from 20 percent three years ago. In contrast, the proportion of large, private universities with deficits declined from 20 percent to 13 percent over the last three years.

Many small colleges are caught in a death spiral that gets worse with each passing year. About 40 percent of colleges enroll 1,000 or fewer students. Since 2010, those institutions have been shedding the most enrollment, a decline of 5 percent. By comparison the largest institutions, with more than 10,000 students each, have grown slightly, on average.

...

Public flagships are looking more like large private universities. And that’s leaving the financially struggling regional public colleges in states to pick up the slack in serving residents who increasingly have fewer choices for a public higher education.

At two dozen public flagship universities, out-of-state students represent at least 40 percent of freshmen enrollment, and at another 11 of them, out-of-state students account for more than half of all freshmen, according to a report from the Jack Kent Cooke Foundation.

...

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

software — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:17:25 GMT

Maybe people will now be more encouraged to learn a trade.

Some college degrees are over-rated.

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

Suziepeach — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:19:27 GMT

Don't read that particular paper but thanks for the info.

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

Spurt — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:46:55 GMT

Interesting article, but I take everything I read in the Washington Post with a grain of salt for a variety of reasons.. I also found it interesting that they would quote The Jack Kent Cooke Foundation--(since the Post hates anything and everything associated with the team)--Redskin fan here!

They article didnt even mention the colleges that make big bucks from their sports programs....................Here's some interesting info from Business Insider---

"It is no secret that big-time college sports is a big-money business, and last year no school made more money from its athletics program than Texas A&M University.

In all, there are now 24 schools that make at least $100 million annually from their athletic department, according to data collected from USA Today and The U.S. Department Of Education. That is up from 20 a year ago and 13 in 2014."

http://www.businessinsider.com/schools-most-revenue-college-sports-2016-10/#25-ucla--969-million-1

http://www.businessinsider.com/college-sports-revenue-leaders-2015-9/#17-florida-state-university--1048-million-17

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

missy1 — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:41:01 GMT

Getting a college degree now a days gets you a low paying job (that's even hard too). Unless you have something "specialized", or a degree in math and science fields.

(I might have forgot some)

I am talking about the BA/BS level. Go to a trade school or get a certificate at a community college. Plumbers, computer repair people, car repair, hair stylist, HVAC, etc. make a decent income. On-line college makes it too easy get a degree these days. IMO there's is no comparison sitting in every class, verses a class you take on-line. I sat in every class and did every lab at the college. I understand people work and have lives. I went to college, was on my own, and worked almost full time. I had no student debt because I went to a CC and a cheaper state college. I also didn't finish in 4 years. Now college costs a lot, the students finish with a huge debt, can't afford to live on their own, and there's not a lot of high paying jobs.

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

Spurt — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:43:34 GMT

@software wrote:
Maybe people will now be more encouraged to learn a trade.
Some college degrees are over-rated.

@software

I have thought the same thing software, there only seems to be a small number of professions where a college degree is required. .......I have co-workers that have Master Degrees in Psychology, History, Liberal Arts etc.........so what the heck are they doing working in a business office! And look at all the debt these graduates have accrued, and all the student loans they have to pay back...........Like you I think that people these days are better off going to trade schools for training in Technology or other fields..............

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

Spurt — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:54:38 GMT

@missy1 wrote:
Getting a college degree now a days gets you a low paying job (that's even hard too). Unless you have something "specialized", or a degree in math and science fields.
(I might have forgot some)
I am talking about the BA/BS level. Go to a trade school or get a certificate at a community college. Plumbers, computer repair people, car repair, hair stylist, HVAC, etc. make a decent income. On-line college makes it too easy get a degree these days. IMO there's is no comparison sitting in every class, verses a class you take on-line. I sat in every class and did every lab at the college. I understand people work and have lives. I went to college, was on my own, and worked almost full time. I had no student debt because I went to a CC and a cheaper state college. I also didn't finish in 4 years. Now college costs a lot, the students finish with a huge debt, can't afford to live on their own, and there's not a lot of high paying jobs.

@missy1

These days a college education seems to be an outdated option (with a few exceptions---doctors and perhaps other medical professions, lawyers, teachers/professors, architects etc) The career opportunies and potential salaries dont match and as you and I have said all that debt isnt worth it.

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

software — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:26:55 GMT

@Spurt wrote:
@software wrote:
Maybe people will now be more encouraged to learn a trade.
Some college degrees are over-rated.

@software

I have thought the same thing software, there only seems to be a small number of professions where a college degree is required. .......I have co-workers that have Master Degrees in Psychology, History, Liberal Arts etc.........so what the heck are they doing working in a business office! And look at all the debt these graduates have accrued, and all the student loans they have to pay back...........Like you I think that people these days are better off going to trade schools for training in Technology or other fields..............

My employer requires a degree for any new hire, even for what you & I would consider a clerical or secretarial job. I work in a college town and my employer thinks we have to compete with the University for employees, I disagree.

I have about 90 college credits, I think I would need about 120 to actually receive a diploma. I applied for jobs as a BOOKKEEPER and was told I need a degree, although I have over 20 years of experience. I also have management experience, being supervisor over other bookeeepers in a corporation, back in the late 1980s. I'm seeing this all over, not just with my employer. I was using an employment service because in the city where I live, (metro area population 1,000,000+) you can hardly get a job without using one. The lady was so nice but told me she would be wasting my time trying to find something for me because all her clients require a college degree.

There is a shortage of electricians, plumbers, framers, etc. These trades can guarantee work, corporations, not so much

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

missy1 — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:43:58 GMT

@software wrote:
@Spurt wrote:
@software wrote:
Maybe people will now be more encouraged to learn a trade.
Some college degrees are over-rated.

@software

I have thought the same thing software, there only seems to be a small number of professions where a college degree is required. .......I have co-workers that have Master Degrees in Psychology, History, Liberal Arts etc.........so what the heck are they doing working in a business office! And look at all the debt these graduates have accrued, and all the student loans they have to pay back...........Like you I think that people these days are better off going to trade schools for training in Technology or other fields..............

My employer requires a degree for any new hire, even for what you & I would consider a clerical or secretarial job. I work in a college town and my employer thinks we have to compete with the University for employees, I disagree.

I have about 90 college credits, I think I would need about 120 to actually receive a diploma. I applied for jobs as a BOOKKEEPER and was told I need a degree, although I have over 20 years of experience. I also have management experience, being supervisor over other bookeeepers in a corporation, back in the late 1980s. I'm seeing this all over, not just with my employer. I was using an employment service because in the city where I live, (metro area population 1,000,000+) you can hardly get a job without using one. The lady was so nice but told me she would be wasting my time trying to find something for me because all her clients require a college degree.

There is a shortage of electricians, plumbers, framers, etc. These trades can guarantee work, corporations, not so much

It's sad we have come to this. Needing a 4-year college degree for non-degreed jobs, (instead of experience/certificates/AA) Frito Lay drivers and Enterprise employees are required to have one. It doesn't make them a better employee because they have a BA/BS. If you got cash/loans colleges on-line are by the thousands. Will an employer choose a potential employee who attended the actual college, over one who exclusively went on-line for college? Does it matter these days?

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

AngusandBuddhasMom — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:43:44 GMT

@software wrote:
@Spurt wrote:
@software wrote:
Maybe people will now be more encouraged to learn a trade.
Some college degrees are over-rated.

@software

I have thought the same thing software, there only seems to be a small number of professions where a college degree is required. .......I have co-workers that have Master Degrees in Psychology, History, Liberal Arts etc.........so what the heck are they doing working in a business office! And look at all the debt these graduates have accrued, and all the student loans they have to pay back...........Like you I think that people these days are better off going to trade schools for training in Technology or other fields..............

My employer requires a degree for any new hire, even for what you & I would consider a clerical or secretarial job. I work in a college town and my employer thinks we have to compete with the University for employees, I disagree.

I have about 90 college credits, I think I would need about 120 to actually receive a diploma. I applied for jobs as a BOOKKEEPER and was told I need a degree, although I have over 20 years of experience. I also have management experience, being supervisor over other bookeeepers in a corporation, back in the late 1980s. I'm seeing this all over, not just with my employer. I was using an employment service because in the city where I live, (metro area population 1,000,000+) you can hardly get a job without using one. The lady was so nice but told me she would be wasting my time trying to find something for me because all her clients require a college degree.

There is a shortage of electricians, plumbers, framers, etc. These trades can guarantee work, corporations, not so much

The point of a college degree is to show you have the ability to finish and that you are marketable. You have gone beyond high school and have spent another four years learning from new experiences as well as educating yourself in a chosen field. Grad school and beyond furthers that skill and knowledge. While trades are needed to blow off college as a non essential especially in today's world is not the way to go.

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

missy1 — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:50:04 GMT

@AngusandBuddhasMom wrote:
@software wrote:
@Spurt wrote:
@software wrote:
Maybe people will now be more encouraged to learn a trade.
Some college degrees are over-rated.

@software

I have thought the same thing software, there only seems to be a small number of professions where a college degree is required. .......I have co-workers that have Master Degrees in Psychology, History, Liberal Arts etc.........so what the heck are they doing working in a business office! And look at all the debt these graduates have accrued, and all the student loans they have to pay back...........Like you I think that people these days are better off going to trade schools for training in Technology or other fields..............

My employer requires a degree for any new hire, even for what you & I would consider a clerical or secretarial job. I work in a college town and my employer thinks we have to compete with the University for employees, I disagree.

I have about 90 college credits, I think I would need about 120 to actually receive a diploma. I applied for jobs as a BOOKKEEPER and was told I need a degree, although I have over 20 years of experience. I also have management experience, being supervisor over other bookeeepers in a corporation, back in the late 1980s. I'm seeing this all over, not just with my employer. I was using an employment service because in the city where I live, (metro area population 1,000,000+) you can hardly get a job without using one. The lady was so nice but told me she would be wasting my time trying to find something for me because all her clients require a college degree.

There is a shortage of electricians, plumbers, framers, etc. These trades can guarantee work, corporations, not so much
The point of a college degree is to show you have the ability to finish and that you are marketable. You have gone beyond high school and have spent another four years learning from new experiences as well as educating yourself in a chosen field. Grad school and beyond furthers that skill and knowledge. While trades are needed to blow off college as a non essential especially in today's world is not the way to go.

I believe this if you attended college in person. Now it's much easier to graduate with high paying on-line colleges. Of course on-line schools are not created equal.

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

itiswhatitis — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:05:34 GMT

@Spurt wrote:
@software wrote:
Maybe people will now be more encouraged to learn a trade.
Some college degrees are over-rated.

@software

I have thought the same thing software, there only seems to be a small number of professions where a college degree is required. .......I have co-workers that have Master Degrees in Psychology, History, Liberal Arts etc.........so what the heck are they doing working in a business office! And look at all the debt these graduates have accrued, and all the student loans they have to pay back...........Like you I think that people these days are better off going to trade schools for training in Technology or other fields..............

@Spurt not sure how true this is considering you'd have to go to college for some of these degrees in the Trades. In essence you're just choosing your poison differently, but you still have to pay that college or trade school bill.

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

itiswhatitis — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:07:29 GMT

@software wrote:
@Spurt wrote:
@software wrote:
Maybe people will now be more encouraged to learn a trade.
Some college degrees are over-rated.

@software

I have thought the same thing software, there only seems to be a small number of professions where a college degree is required. .......I have co-workers that have Master Degrees in Psychology, History, Liberal Arts etc.........so what the heck are they doing working in a business office! And look at all the debt these graduates have accrued, and all the student loans they have to pay back...........Like you I think that people these days are better off going to trade schools for training in Technology or other fields..............

My employer requires a degree for any new hire, even for what you & I would consider a clerical or secretarial job. I work in a college town and my employer thinks we have to compete with the University for employees, I disagree.

I have about 90 college credits, I think I would need about 120 to actually receive a diploma. I applied for jobs as a BOOKKEEPER and was told I need a degree, although I have over 20 years of experience. I also have management experience, being supervisor over other bookeeepers in a corporation, back in the late 1980s. I'm seeing this all over, not just with my employer. I was using an employment service because in the city where I live, (metro area population 1,000,000+) you can hardly get a job without using one. The lady was so nice but told me she would be wasting my time trying to find something for me because all her clients require a college degree.

There is a shortage of electricians, plumbers, framers, etc. These trades can guarantee work, corporations, not so much

There is a shortage of electricians, plumbers, framers, etc. These trades can guarantee work, corporations, not so much

No one can guarantee work......Corporations need people with a wide array of skills.

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

Spurt — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:17:34 GMT

@itiswhatitis wrote:
@Spurt wrote:
@software wrote:
Maybe people will now be more encouraged to learn a trade.
Some college degrees are over-rated.

@software

I have thought the same thing software, there only seems to be a small number of professions where a college degree is required. .......I have co-workers that have Master Degrees in Psychology, History, Liberal Arts etc.........so what the heck are they doing working in a business office! And look at all the debt these graduates have accrued, and all the student loans they have to pay back...........Like you I think that people these days are better off going to trade schools for training in Technology or other fields..............
@Spurt not sure how true this is considering you'd have to go to college for some of these degrees in the Trades. In essence you're just choosing your poison differently, but you still have to pay that college or trade school bill.

Trade schools do just as good of a job for many skills and charge just a fraction of the cost of colleges and univerisities. You can get certificiations in IT without a college degree

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

SahmIam — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:19:45 GMT

I read that article and nothing surprised me. Makes sense that the largest private ones would have the most money especially as so many alumi's donate funds. Wealth produces more wealth; everyone knows that.

The smaller colleges...what do they have to offer? A friends' daughter attended a very small private college to major in art and poetry. Parents spent 6 figures on that degree. Daughter is home on the sofa as her degree is pretty much useless. A small private college in my state is a lovely school; very artsy farsty, mind traveling think about the world and philosophy and hug a tree kind of school. Enrollment is plummeting because....your job after college will be......what? Exactly. It's nice in theory, not so much in reality.

State college is getting expensive because it can be. Everyone thinks you MUST have a degree to succeed. Meanwhile, many friends of my 20 year old son chose to NOT go to school (parents were aghast and the crying phone calls were constant) and are becoming plumbers, mechanics, electricians....you ALWAYS need them. An accountant? Not so much.

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

software — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:31:40 GMT

@itiswhatitis wrote:
@software wrote:
@Spurt wrote:
@software wrote:
Maybe people will now be more encouraged to learn a trade.
Some college degrees are over-rated.

@software

I have thought the same thing software, there only seems to be a small number of professions where a college degree is required. .......I have co-workers that have Master Degrees in Psychology, History, Liberal Arts etc.........so what the heck are they doing working in a business office! And look at all the debt these graduates have accrued, and all the student loans they have to pay back...........Like you I think that people these days are better off going to trade schools for training in Technology or other fields..............

My employer requires a degree for any new hire, even for what you & I would consider a clerical or secretarial job. I work in a college town and my employer thinks we have to compete with the University for employees, I disagree.

I have about 90 college credits, I think I would need about 120 to actually receive a diploma. I applied for jobs as a BOOKKEEPER and was told I need a degree, although I have over 20 years of experience. I also have management experience, being supervisor over other bookeeepers in a corporation, back in the late 1980s. I'm seeing this all over, not just with my employer. I was using an employment service because in the city where I live, (metro area population 1,000,000+) you can hardly get a job without using one. The lady was so nice but told me she would be wasting my time trying to find something for me because all her clients require a college degree.

There is a shortage of electricians, plumbers, framers, etc. These trades can guarantee work, corporations, not so much
There is a shortage of electricians, plumbers, framers, etc. These trades can guarantee work, corporations, not so much

No one can guarantee work......Corporations need people with a wide array of skills.

If a plumber is working for a plumbing company and loses his job because the owner retired or anything other than "cause", he can find another job immediatey or go out on his own. Not so with a corporate job.

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

missy1 — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:32:38 GMT

@SahmIam wrote:
I read that article and nothing surprised me. Makes sense that the largest private ones would have the most money especially as so many alumi's donate funds. Wealth produces more wealth; everyone knows that.

The smaller colleges...what do they have to offer? A friends' daughter attended a very small private college to major in art and poetry. Parents spent 6 figures on that degree. Daughter is home on the sofa as her degree is pretty much useless. A small private college in my state is a lovely school; very artsy farsty, mind traveling think about the world and philosophy and hug a tree kind of school. Enrollment is plummeting because....your job after college will be......what? Exactly. It's nice in theory, not so much in reality.

State college is getting expensive because it can be. Everyone thinks you MUST have a degree to succeed. Meanwhile, many friends of my 20 year old son chose to NOT go to school (parents were aghast and the crying phone calls were constant) and are becoming plumbers, mechanics, electricians....you ALWAYS need them. An accountant? Not so much.

If you are going to have a 6 figure student loan debt, you better get a degree that is usable/marketable. Not like your friends dd. My relative went to a prestigious university (50,000/year for 4 years) and went right in LE after graduating. (where you don't need that degree or any, just the officer training)

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

CrazyDaisy — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:33:57 GMT

@itiswhatitis wrote:
@software wrote:
@Spurt wrote:
@software wrote:
Maybe people will now be more encouraged to learn a trade.
Some college degrees are over-rated.

@software

I have thought the same thing software, there only seems to be a small number of professions where a college degree is required. .......I have co-workers that have Master Degrees in Psychology, History, Liberal Arts etc.........so what the heck are they doing working in a business office! And look at all the debt these graduates have accrued, and all the student loans they have to pay back...........Like you I think that people these days are better off going to trade schools for training in Technology or other fields..............

My employer requires a degree for any new hire, even for what you & I would consider a clerical or secretarial job. I work in a college town and my employer thinks we have to compete with the University for employees, I disagree.

I have about 90 college credits, I think I would need about 120 to actually receive a diploma. I applied for jobs as a BOOKKEEPER and was told I need a degree, although I have over 20 years of experience. I also have management experience, being supervisor over other bookeeepers in a corporation, back in the late 1980s. I'm seeing this all over, not just with my employer. I was using an employment service because in the city where I live, (metro area population 1,000,000+) you can hardly get a job without using one. The lady was so nice but told me she would be wasting my time trying to find something for me because all her clients require a college degree.

There is a shortage of electricians, plumbers, framers, etc. These trades can guarantee work, corporations, not so much
There is a shortage of electricians, plumbers, framers, etc. These trades can guarantee work, corporations, not so much

No one can guarantee work......Corporations need people with a wide array of skills.

Working for a company who uses trade labor, they are better paying jobs with better benefits than most office jobs. And yes there is a serious shortage of workers, welders/iron workers are in high demand and getting top wages.

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

itiswhatitis — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:34:20 GMT

@Spurt wrote:
@itiswhatitis wrote:
@Spurt wrote:
@software wrote:
Maybe people will now be more encouraged to learn a trade.
Some college degrees are over-rated.

@software

I have thought the same thing software, there only seems to be a small number of professions where a college degree is required. .......I have co-workers that have Master Degrees in Psychology, History, Liberal Arts etc.........so what the heck are they doing working in a business office! And look at all the debt these graduates have accrued, and all the student loans they have to pay back...........Like you I think that people these days are better off going to trade schools for training in Technology or other fields..............
@Spurt not sure how true this is considering you'd have to go to college for some of these degrees in the Trades. In essence you're just choosing your poison differently, but you still have to pay that college or trade school bill.
Trade schools do just as good of a job for many skills and charge just a fraction of the cost of colleges and univerisities. You can get certificiations in IT without a college degree

@Spurt Trade schools do a good job (depending on which ones) but they tend to cost more than public colleges.

Re: Three Worrisome Trends in U.S. Higher Education

Spurt — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 17:27:35 GMT

@software wrote:
@Spurt wrote:
@software wrote:
Maybe people will now be more encouraged to learn a trade.
Some college degrees are over-rated.

@software

I have thought the same thing software, there only seems to be a small number of professions where a college degree is required. .......I have co-workers that have Master Degrees in Psychology, History, Liberal Arts etc.........so what the heck are they doing working in a business office! And look at all the debt these graduates have accrued, and all the student loans they have to pay back...........Like you I think that people these days are better off going to trade schools for training in Technology or other fields..............

My employer requires a degree for any new hire, even for what you & I would consider a clerical or secretarial job. I work in a college town and my employer thinks we have to compete with the University for employees, I disagree.

I have about 90 college credits, I think I would need about 120 to actually receive a diploma. I applied for jobs as a BOOKKEEPER and was told I need a degree, although I have over 20 years of experience. I also have management experience, being supervisor over other bookeeepers in a corporation, back in the late 1980s. I'm seeing this all over, not just with my employer. I was using an employment service because in the city where I live, (metro area population 1,000,000+) you can hardly get a job without using one. The lady was so nice but told me she would be wasting my time trying to find something for me because all her clients require a college degree.

There is a shortage of electricians, plumbers, framers, etc. These trades can guarantee work, corporations, not so much

@software

Since you live in a college town that might make a big difference in what employers may require.....You hear more and more about employers are valuing experience over degrees....

https://www.aiesec.ca/blog/why-experience-is-more-important-than-your-education/

Lectures, exams and assignments can only teach so much; and the majority of that teaching is theory and knowledge. But a university education cannot really provide the hands-on, practical experience that employers of today need.

Also in the corporate world there is more chance of layoffs in the higher paid positions......versus trades like plumbers, electricians, even A/C repair, auto repair always going to be a need...........