topic Re: Lay offs in Q Talk

Lay offs

CalminHeart — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 12:25:55 GMT

Employment laws are “at-will” in all U.S. states except Montana. This means an employer can fire you or lay you off for any reason or no reason.

The U.S. is one of very few of countries where employment is predominantly at-will.

Most countries throughout the world allow employers to dismiss employees only for cause.

Like it or not, this is the law state legislatures and governors adopted. Stop complaining or do something about it.

Re: Lay offs

They CallMe MRWILKES — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 12:59:05 GMT

I have absolutely no issue with the practice whatsoever. No complaining from me, only mild surprise as to the specific selections.

A failing, struggling company has no choice but expense reduction when revenue does not grow organically.

That said, I see another large headcount reduction in Qurate's future, as enormous debt payments come due over the next 2 years.

My views and opinions. Good luck to Qurate's current employees.

Re: Lay offs

Venezia — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 13:13:49 GMT

Qurate could always file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy to reorganize and restructure. A lot of companies do (like one I used to work for).

Re: Lay offs

They CallMe MRWILKES — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 14:28:00 GMT

Yes, and reduce headcount enormously up to and through the process.

Filing bankruptcy does not equate to "no workforce reduction." It's often an integral part of the reorganization.

Cash is King when preparing for a Chapter 11.

Re: Lay offs

PamfromCT — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 23:11:48 GMT

@CalminHeart, You are correct about the “Employment at Will” law.

On the flip side, it applies also to employees, at will.

This law states you can leave your employment at any time, and for any reason.

This law does not mean employers are allowed to practice discrimination due to age, race, country of national origin.

Re: Lay offs

Kachina624 — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 17:24:38 GMT

@CalminHeart wrote:

Employment laws are “at-will” in all U.S. states except Montana. This means an employer can fire you or lay you off for any reason or no reason.

The U.S. is one of very few of countries where employment is predominantly at-will.

Most countries throughout the world allow employers to dismiss employees only for cause.

Like it or not, this is the law state legislatures and governors adopted. Stop complaining or do something about it.

@CalminHeart Of course an employer has to be very careful not to violate any civil rights laws in excerising "employment at will". He would be subject to complaints if he, for instance, laid off everyone over age 55 or just people of one race. It can be a slippery slope.

Re: Lay offs

NYCLatinaMe — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 18:08:28 GMT

@Venezia wrote:
Qurate could always file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy to reorganize and restructure. A lot of companies do (like one I used to work for).

@Venezia Not sure you understand what bankruptcy is.

All I know is that QVC revenue is going down. Bankruptcy is for those that can't pay their debts. I have not read anywhere that they are failing to meet their obligations, so no reason to file unless that is going on.

If they can't meet their obligations, and they file to stop collections or are forced into Chapter 11 by a creditor, the debtor loses control because everything has to be approved by the court. It is a costly proposition, because they need a lawyer to present everything they want to do to the court AND the the debtors actually pays for lawyers for all the parties.

And the first thing they will have to do is cut costs.

So what's the point?

Re: Lay offs

lgfan — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 18:11:07 GMT

The at-will employment law does not stop people from filing wrongful termination lawsuits. I worked at an office that was constantly getting faxes from lawyers' offices requesting information for terminated employees who were bringing wrongful termination lawsuits against the company.

Re: Lay offs

DrakesMomma — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 18:14:45 GMT

The last place I worked at had someone that would tell everyone if they were let go at any time for any reason to file for unemployment and whatever else they thought they could get. Her reasoning was every piece of paper filled out cost the company money to respond to.

Re: Lay offs

They CallMe MRWILKES — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 18:22:54 GMT

Qurate Future Debt Repayments:

$214 million due 3/15/2023

$600 million due 4/1/2024

$600 million due 4/1/2025

They could easily file within the next 2 years.

Re: Lay offs

NYCLatinaMe — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 18:23:18 GMT

@PamfromCT wrote:
@CalminHeart, You are correct about the “Employmemt at Will” law.
On the flip side, it applies also to employees, at will.
This law states you can leave your employment at any time, and for any reason.

This law does not mean employers are allowed to practice discrimination due to age, race, country of national origin.

@PamfromCT

In places where employers can only dismiss employees for cause employees are allowed to resign their jobs. The laws don't require employees to work. That is called slavery.

And usually employees leave for cause -- they found a better job, they don't like working conditions, bossess, or co-workers, or have to quit for health or personal reasons.

The only thing that can interfere with an employee's ability to quit is an employment contract. And even that does not force an employee to work for any one in particular. Because that would be slavery. Any consequences for an employee breaking an employment contract are financial, or maybe they have to sit out and not work for a while.

Re: Lay offs

NYCLatinaMe — Thu, 09 Mar 2023 05:17:41 GMT

@Kachina624 wrote:

@CalminHeart Of course an employer has to be very careful not to violate any civil rights laws in excerising "employment at will". He would be subject to complaints if he, for instance, laid off everyone over age 55 or just people of one race. It can be a slippery slope.

@Kachina624 Most employeRs are not afraid to violate the law and do it all the time. Proving discrimination is hard, and takes a toll on the person filing the claim. It is very easy for employers to find something they can criticize an employee for and fire them. Never mind that they tolerate worse by many other employees. So employers generally get away with it.

Employees lack the resources and information to fight back.

We only hear about wealthy people who have the resources to bring cases.

Like news anchor Gretchen Carlson who was paid $20 million by Fox News to settle her gender discrimination lawsuit in 2016.

In 2018, Fox News paid $10 million to settle a number of racial and gender discrimination lawsuits involving 18 current and former employees.

News anchor Melissa Francis received $15 million from Fox News to settle her discrimination complaint.

We only hear about these cases because the amounts are significant.

Regular Janes and Joes can't bring cases because the lawsuits won't amount to payouts sufficient to entice lawyers to do the hard work involved. And you can be sure the employer will bring out every little mistake the employee has ever made. And who wants to deal with that. Everyone makes mistakes. Employers only tolerate mistakes in some. That discrimination is hard to prove in Court. Employers count on that. And sometimes the discrimination is subconscious, but no less real.

Re: Lay offs

NYCLatinaMe — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 18:50:31 GMT

@They CallMe MRWILKES wrote:
Qurate Future Debt Repayments:

$214 million due 3/15/2023
$600 million due 4/1/2024
$600 million due 4/1/2025

They could easily file within the next 2 years.

What makes you think they can't pay or refinance or otherwise settle these debts?

Re: Lay offs

Kachina624 — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 21:53:05 GMT

@NYCLatinaMe Once a complaint has been filed, investigated and approved as valid by the EEOC, they file the lawsuit on behalf of the complainant. No need to hire an attorney.

Re: Lay offs

Venezia — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 22:33:19 GMT

@NYCLatinaMe - The company I worked for went through Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Yes, I know what it is. Businesses use it more often than you perhaps realize.

I don't intend to explain it on this forum, but anyone can google it for him or herself.

Re: Lay offs

PamfromCT — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 23:27:52 GMT

@NYCLatinaMe wrote:
@PamfromCT wrote:
@CalminHeart, You are correct about the “Employmemt at Will” law.
On the flip side, it applies also to employees, at will.
This law states you can leave your employment at any time, and for any reason.

This law does not mean employers are allowed to practice discrimination due to age, race, country of national origin.
@PamfromCT

In places where employers can only dismiss employees for cause employees are allowed to resign their jobs. The laws don't require employees to work. That is called slavery.

And usually employees leave for cause -- they found a better job, they don't like working conditions, bossess, or co-workers, or have to quit for health or personal reasons.

The only thing that can interfere with an employee's ability to quit is an employment contract. And even that does not force an employee to work for any one in particular. Because that would be slavery. Any consequences for an employee breaking an employment contract are financial, or maybe they have to sit out and not work for a while.

@NYCLatinaMe, The fact that any employee can resign for any reason, as part of this law, was stressed when I took university classes in employment law. Might not make sense, but am just repeating that. Might cover certain health care workers, without a contract, who quit and walk because of very poor treatment. The government may have to step in and order them back to work. Of course, this is situational and would require an emergency situation.

Of course, we can all take things with a grain of salt, as they say.

Just like a Philosophy professor I had who kept on insisting there is no such thing as “normal.” Of course, I’m today’s world, maybe he was correct.

Re: Lay offs

PamfromCT — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 23:21:55 GMT

A practice that is employed by some employers, and very large ones at that.

A person gets laid off, along with many older employees. In order to prevent lawsuits, the company will make you a good financial offer (say a year’s salary] to sign an agreement not to sue. Most people likely sign.

If only the person I know who worked a lifetime for the Federal Department of Labor could write a book!

Re: Lay offs

Not 2 Day — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 09:26:51 GMT

@Kachina624 wrote:
@NYCLatinaMe Once a complaint has been filed, investigated and approved as valid by the EEOC, they file the lawsuit on behalf of the complainant. No need to hire an attorney.

This only assumes EEOC has jurisdiction to investigate the case. Factors such as the size of the employer play a role in whether EEOC will investigate or whether a lawsuit is a more viable option. The EEOC doesn't investigate every complain that comes their way because certain criteria has to be met for them to do so.

Re: Lay offs

They CallMe MRWILKES — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 11:56:20 GMT

It's definitely not automatic or easy.

File the charge with the EEOC; the initial complaint must be filed within a specific number of days after the alleged incident.

EEOC informs the employer and begins an investigation

The investigation may take 10-12 months depending upon circumstances

The EEOC could elect to not take the case if it determines law was not violated

If it does find a case it first pursues mediation

If mediation fails and the EEOC believes there is a case it may then take the employer to court.

If the EEOC declines to sue the employee could still pursue it on their own.

The process could take several years.

Re: Lay offs

jackiejenny — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 15:04:29 GMT

I listened to a podcast with Marvin Segel, son of QVC's creator Joseph Segel.

He too, thinks QVC is in major trouble and headed in the wrong direction.

Too many mistakes for too many years.

I predict more massive cuts are coming in 12/18 months, maybe sooner.