topic Re: C-Diff in Wellness

C-Diff

kismet — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 11:37:28 GMT

I was diagnosed a few weeks ago with cdiff. I took 10 days of Flagyl and then was rechecked 2 weeks after stopping the antibiotic and I still have it. My doctor wants me to take Vancomycin. I read some of the side effects and don't feel comfortable with it. Has anyone taken more than 2 10 day treatments of Flagyl and had no cdiff after treatment. The Flagyl was hard to take and I feel better with no cramping. However, the test does indicate the infection is still there.

I was diagnosed with cdiff almost 3 years ago after having several surgeries and taking a lot of antibiotics. I haven't taken any since then so this is not from antibiotics. I took a 10 day treatment of Flagyl and was checked and I was clear back then. Does anyone have any information on the treatment that worked for them. I'm very careful and wash my hands a lot, some say I wash my hands too much. Just can't understand how I got this. No explanation at all.

My doctor wants me to take the liquid form of Vancomycin, anyone ever take that form or pills?

Also want to say that I was taking Floraster for a long time and stopped taking it probably 6 months or more ago. I took it while on the Flagyl and thought I would be fine. Not.

Thanks

Re: C-Diff

KippyK3 — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:00:48 GMT

Morning. I was hospitalized for 5 days from C-Diff. Awful. I had some kind of antibiotic in my IV drip while I was in there. Flagyl and probiotics for 10 days when I was released, Cleared me up. You may want to check out probiotics, and discuss with your doctor.

Re: C-Diff

Vivian — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:19:47 GMT

Six years ago, I got C-diff from a hospital stay. In the old days the major cause was antibiotcs but now the bug has permeated hospitals. I caught it without having been on antibiotics. Once I was finally diagnosed, I was put on Flagyl plus another antibiotic at the same time and after two weeks I was fine.

Re: C-Diff

kismet — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:20:35 GMT

KippyK3, I am taking Florastor, a probiotic, since I was diagnosed again. I took 2 a day before I started the antibiotic. Were you home bound taking Flagyl? Talked to the doctor's nurse yesterday and she said this is the next course of treatment. I do have a specialist in the city that I saw when I had the first bout of Cdiff and he said my GP gave me the right medication. If it doesn't clear up with another antibiotic I'll go and see the specialist and see what he thinks. My GP wants to see me after this treatment and check.

Re: C-Diff

KippyK3 — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:37:01 GMT

On 9/23/2014 kismet said:
KippyK3, I am taking Florastor, a probiotic, since I was diagnosed again. I took 2 a day before I started the antibiotic. Were you home bound taking Flagyl? Talked to the doctor's nurse yesterday and she said this is the next course of treatment. I do have a specialist in the city that I saw when I had the first bout of Cdiff and he said my GP gave me the right medication. If it doesn't clear up with another antibiotic I'll go and see the specialist and see what he thinks. My GP wants to see me after this treatment and check.

Yes, I took it at home, after I was released. My doc also said that if it didn't clear up after that 10 day round of Flagyl, that I would need to take something stronger. I am sorry but I don't remember what it was. W/out going into a lot of detail, here, in public, I was very lucky. The side effects of these meds would have worsened my issues. I hope you get better. It was terrible!

Re: C-Diff

puglet1 — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:10:48 GMT

Kismet, I had a life-threatening C. diff. infection about 23 years ago. I ran from one doctor to the next and none even thought to test me for C. diff. One gastro told me after the fact that, "You didn't look like the typical patient with a C. diff. infection." I wound up with a toxic megacolon and was within minutes of it bursting and killing me. I had to have part of my colon removed in emergency surgery. Probably the only reason I survived was because I was in peak physical condition. Because my infection was so severe, I was automatically given vancomycin right after surgery. Vanco is reserved for patients with more severe infections or recurrent infections.

It is not uncommon for people to have recurrent infection. My symptoms returned shortly after I finished my first course of vancomycin and I was prescribed a second course, which did the trick. The literature states that people who have a relapse are more likely to have recurrences, however, I haven't had a problem since that time. The literature also talks about C. diff. spores being reactivated, but I don't know if these spores can remain in the body for three years, in your case, then somehow become reactivated.

In 23 years, I have only had to take one antibiotic for strep throat. Otherwise, I avoid them like the plague. People who have had C. diff. infections are much more likely to incur another C. diff. infection when taking antibiotics subsequently. Under no circumstances should you ever take an antibiotic unless you have contracted a bacterial infection that has been tested for and identified as such. Even the general population should heed this advice.

I also did my research for a good probiotic and decided on Culturelle for myself because it contains 100% Lactobacillus GG, which has been studied specifically for C. diff.

As far as the side effects you read about for vancomycin, yes, they are scary, but they are also scary for metronidazole (Flagyl), as they are for most antibiotics. Of course, intravenous vancomycin will be more problematic than oral vancomycin. Are you sure you read about oral vancomycin? I didn't even have the knowledge of side effects at the time of my infection, but I had no choice in the matter. It was vancomycin or my life. You may have read there are several factors that might make vancomycin more dangerous. They include an elderly person, one with compromised kidney function, whether you are on other medications, etc.

If you are that fearful of vancomycin (and I understand your fear because I refused to have a contrast MRI a couple of years ago because of the side effects of the particular contrast material; instead, I was able to identify an MRI facility that had a "fast-spin" technology that worked as well as contrast in giving a detailed image.), I'd ask your doc if you can repeat a course of Flagyl. I would also suggest you speak to as many pharmacists as you can about this. They usually know a lot more about drugs than docs.

Best wishes to you and feel better!

ETA: If/when you go on another course of antibiotics, make sure you know when you can take your probiotic during the day. I believe it has to be a certain number of hours after the antibiotic or else it negates the antibiotic.

Re: C-Diff

kismet — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:42:22 GMT

puglet1, to look at me you would never think I had anything. I hadn't felt well for at least 2 or 3 weeks and thought it was the colitis that will pop up once in awhile. I have medication for that but didn't take it in over a year. When I started to feel worse I went to the walk in clinic on a sunday. I pretty much suspected cdiff. I knew it could come back but I don't know how. Just my husband and I here and he doesn't have it. Don't go out much and always always wash my hands with hot water and soap. My daughter says I go overboard on clean.

I'm 68 and while I don't feel it I guess I am in an age group where it is more common.

I'm sorry you had to go through what you did with your colon and I know how it feels. I had surgery for Crohn's disease in the 70s. It's amazing how far medicine has come since then.

I've had many MRIs with contrast and never had a problem. They do check my blood to make sure my kidney's are working fine. After a certain age they check. I had to cancel one four weeks ago when I got the diagnosis. I didn't want to go and have someone pick it up from me. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Guess life happens and we just deal. Things could always be worse.

Re: C-Diff

puglet1 — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:13:58 GMT

I know what you mean, kismet. Since my horrible experience, I have "adjusted" my lifestyle somewhat to avoid large crowds just so that I don't get sick and have to take antibiotics for any reason. I've become more of a germaphobe too.

Having Crohn's definitely confounds the issue. You mentioned you were just tested in a walk-in clinic on a Sunday. Is your regular doctor there? Do you feel comfortable with the results? Would you consider being re-tested at your gastroenterologist's office before committing to another course of antibiotics? Obviously, you don't want to play around with a C. diff. infection, but I do understand your concern about the treatment too. I'm not an expert, but my feeling is that vancomycin is more effective in knocking out the infection once and for all. HOWEVER, that's not to say a second course of Flagyl won't or can't. Again, I'd speak to a pharmacist(s).

Re: C-Diff

Rottie_mama — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:23:21 GMT

Speak to your doctor!!! PLEASE!

The reason for Vancomycin is it is not absorbed orally so it goes straight to the bowels and kills clostridium difficile. A pharmacist knows the drugs, can list the side effects, can formulate a drug but he cannot diagnose the disease nor does he want to. You can drink vancomycin, because the liquid is cheaper than the pills.

Metronidazole can be given again. It is still effective. That said, do not mess around with Clostridium difficile, he is a bad bug.

Speak to your doctor or staff, they will explain why they are doing what they are doing.

Re: C-Diff

kismet — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:46:49 GMT

The walk in clinic is a part of the same clinic my doctor is in. It's only for patients of the clinic. They have all my information in the computer. The walk in usually isn't for follow up. My GP takes over for follow up. I feel I get very good care there.

I just called the clinic and talked to the nurse and explained my insurance will not cover the liquid. I'll take the capsules and go from there.

One question I have is have you been checked right at the end of the antibiotics or have you waited 2 weeks. I know that the flagyl did some good cause I feel better but not enough to knock it all out. I know this is serious that's why I had to go to the walk in clinic on a weekend.

I'll ask the pharmacist when to take a probiotic while taking the antibiotic.

Re: C-Diff

Rottie_mama — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:08:26 GMT

On 9/23/2014 kismet said:

The walk in clinic is a part of the same clinic my doctor is in. It's only for patients of the clinic. They have all my information in the computer. The walk in usually isn't for follow up. My GP takes over for follow up. I feel I get very good care there.

I just called the clinic and talked to the nurse and explained my insurance will not cover the liquid. I'll take the capsules and go from there.

One question I have is have you been checked right at the end of the antibiotics or have you waited 2 weeks. I know that the flagyl did some good cause I feel better but not enough to knock it all out. I know this is serious that's why I had to go to the walk in clinic on a weekend.

I'll ask the pharmacist when to take a probiotic while taking the antibiotic.

Odd how that works, eh?

Liquid is used more and is cheaper. Oh well. As long as you get the right drug and get healthy who cares. Again ask the RN or DR about the probiotic too. This is their expertise. Remember ask them questions, they cannot read your mind. There only stupid question in medicine, is the one not asked.

Your normal gut flora will come back but right now you need to kill this bad bug. God Speed!

Re: C-Diff

puglet1 — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:32:22 GMT

"One question I have is have you been checked right at the end of the antibiotics or have you waited 2 weeks. I know that the flagyl did some good cause I feel better but not enough to knock it all out. I know this is serious that's why I had to go to the walk in clinic on a weekend.

I'll ask the pharmacist when to take a probiotic while taking the antibiotic."

------------------

kismet, as I recall, you would want to wait a couple of weeks before being re-tested. Testing immediately upon finishing the antibiotic could be misleading. At that point in time, all the C. diff. may appear to be eradicated. The idea of waiting a couple of weeks is to see if any few remaining, but undetected C. diff. re-colonize. Of course, your doctor and/or pharmacist will know for sure about the appropriate testing schedule. Please don't take anything I or anyone else says on here as gospel as we are not medical professionals or, even if we were, we do not know your particular case.

Also make sure if you are taking any other meds, to check about any interactions with the vancomycin.

Re: C-Diff

just bee — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:39:52 GMT

On 9/23/2014 Rottie_mama said:
... do not mess around with Clostridium difficile, he is a bad bug.

Very, very bad. I loathe and despise this vile bacteria. My mother was in her 80s and although she was in the early stages of Alzheimer's she was in relatively good health. She amazed those in her exercise classes because she could still bend at the waist and put her palms flat on the floor. She tap danced for her doctors. Ah, my little Italian mother was spry -- until she was diagnosed with C. diff.

I firmly believe that we are pumping too many antibiotics into people -- especially the elderly. When she was infected, the hospital staff scrambled to find a cocktail to combat the infection. At one point, a doctor whom I'd never met called me at home to tell me that my mother's colon was dead. We will give her morphine, of course, but start making the appropriate arrangements.

As it turns out, her colon wasn't dead and she survived and was released after ten days in the hospital. But she couldn't return to her assisted living apartment. I planned to keep her with me, but soon discovered that was going to be impossible. I was working full-time and going to nursing school.

She left the hospital in a wheelchair and never walked again. Within a few weeks she was in hospice. Like I said, I loathe C. diff.

Re: C-Diff

ccassaday — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:52:42 GMT

It took two rounds of it to clear mine up. The doctor said sometimes it takes three. Got mine from being on antibiotics for over fourth days.

Re: C-Diff

RedTop — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:02:36 GMT

Once you have c-diff, you have c-diff; you either have an active, or inactive infection. An active infection means your intestines are shedding many spores, which requires using antibiotics to clear up. When you test negative, it only means no live spores are detected in the stool sample at that particular time. You must be proactive with c-diff; take the Vancomycin without question and do what you can to keep this infection dormant. Do not risk compromising your health to this super bug. Just like MRSA infections, c-diff will re-colonize and show itself over and over, and you must treat each infection aggressively to prevent permanent damage to the body.

Re: C-Diff

KippyK3 — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:40:16 GMT

Yes. To clarify, I was retested both 10 days after my round of Flagyl, (that I took once I was released,) and then again 2 weeks later. But, in my case I was also being given an antibiotic in my IV while in the hospital. I also had very strict diet and activity limitations. As I said, I was very lucky, and my treatment plan cleared it up. I was given very clear instructions to take my probiotics at least 2 hours after the antibiotic. I still eat yogurt everyday and I, too, avoid antibiotics like the plague! I wish you well.

Re: C-Diff

KippyK3 — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:44:14 GMT

On 9/23/2014 RedTop said: Once you have c-diff, you have c-diff; you either have an active, or inactive infection. An active infection means your intestines are shedding many spores, which requires using antibiotics to clear up. When you test negative, it only means no live spores are detected in the stool sample at that particular time. You must be proactive with c-diff; take the Vancomycin without question and do what you can to keep this infection dormant. Do not risk compromising your health to this super bug. Just like MRSA infections, c-diff will re-colonize and show itself over and over, and you must treat each infection aggressively to prevent permanent damage to the body.

RedTop, I didn't see your post until after I submitted mine. That is scary!

Re: C-Diff

Nightowlz — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:53:07 GMT

I have never heard of this. This sounds like some scary stuff. I'm a little confused. Are you saying you get C-Diff while in the hospital or from taking antibiotics? I never take antibiotics unless absolutely necessary. The doctor told me I had walking pneumonia at one time & I needed to take antibiotics & I asked if it would go away without them & he said yes it would just take longer so I refused them. He could not believe it. He said he has patients in his office every day wanting them for something they did not need them for & I actually need them & refused. So sorry to anyone that has been through this.

Re: C-Diff

KippyK3 — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:56:09 GMT

They believe that I got it from being on a strong antibiotic for a sinus/ear infection. I, then, got so sick about a month later that my DH picked me up off of the bathroom floor and rushed me to the ER. they kept me for 5 days.

Re: C-Diff

Nightowlz — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 18:00:53 GMT

On 9/23/2014 KippyK3 said: They believe that I got it from being on a strong antibiotic for a sinus/ear infection.

Do they know why antibiotics causes this? Last time I took an antibiotic was for a sinus infection years ago. I was told it would not go away without it. It was a powder I had to mix with water & drink 1 time. Is it all antibiotics that can cause this or certain ones? I take Andrew Lessman's Ultimate Friendly Flora probiotics every day.