topic Re: Heart Failure.... in Wellness

Heart Failure....

CatsyCline — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 17:32:06 GMT

Does anyone have this or experience with this? My mom has this. She is nearly 88 and had AFIB, it started after her hip surgery last November. Her hospital doctors put her on two meds:

She takes Cardizem and an anti coagulant, now Eliquis which she doesn't like to take because the Eliquis has caused bleeding on her leg and arm. Plavix did the same so she asked her cardio to take her off it. He did stop the Plavix . She had to be hospitalized a month later for afib and she was in active heart failure. She was given Digoxin IV because the IV push of the Cardizem and Plavix weren't working as quickly as expected. She had fluid internally (had CT scan)

She has been back home for 3 weeks and I'm concerned about her. She dislikes taking pills. (she takes a blood pressure med too)

Re: Heart Failure....

CatsyCline — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 17:37:04 GMT

Adding to say that the Eliquis was given to her at the recent hospital visit.

Re: Heart Failure....

blackhole99 — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 17:51:06 GMT

I have been in permanent afib for 3 years and take Metoprolol to slow down my heart rate and Warfarin to prevent a stroke. I am 67 and cannot imagine dealing with afib at 88 on my own. It is imperative that you take your meds. consistently and on time or you may have grave results. I was on Xarelto a blood thinner for about a year and although it was convenient I was black and blue everywhere and also had bleeding gums. For me Warfarin was the better choice, but it requires blood test every month and every 2 weeks if for some reason you are not within optimum range. I'm lucky and do not have any shortness of breath, chest pain or swelling so far. but I will at some point and will deal with that when it comes. Good luck with your mother.

Re: Heart Failure....

itsmetoo — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 17:57:55 GMT

@CatsyCline

I'm so sorry about your mom. With heart failure it is important that she watches her diet (low sodium) but she can recover. Do you know what her ejection fraction is? That will tell you how bad her heart failure is. Once the fluid is removed from her lungs that will help her breathing. My brother has it so I have lots of experience with it. What is it you want to know?

Re: Heart Failure....

Shelbelle — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 18:00:33 GMT

My Mom lived alone, had A Fib and lived to be 94, it really never made a difference in her life, she took Metropolol and a full aspirin daily.

Re: Heart Failure....

SeaMaiden — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 18:01:07 GMT

@CatsyCline Do not have anything to add as far as experience with this, but I know how concerning this must for you and I hope someone ere can offer/share information that eases your worry. Take care of yourself too. ~SeaMaiden~

Re: Heart Failure....

chrystaltree — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 18:08:06 GMT

I'm not a cardiologist but she's is 88 and it is not at unusual for that when a person that old has major surgery, their systems begin to fail after that. You don't really have a question so I can only say that I understand how concerned you must be and venting is a good thing. If you have specific questions about your mother's health, you really should ask her physicians. It doesn't matter whether your mother likes taking pills, no one likes taking pills but if she needs those pills and if swallowing isn't a problem or her, she has no choice. She has to take them.

Re: Heart Failure....

equss — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 18:25:42 GMT

My mom qualified for hospice due to congestive heart failure ( Afib too) at age 90. Hospice discharged her after a year because she was stable. If your my mom qualifies for hospice do it. What a great service that allows you to stay at home and family knows they are being checked on and well cared for.....my dad had hospice for the last 3 months if his life and I’m forever grateful. I do think my mom eventually qualify for hospice again but I never dreamed she’d rally the way she did. The right meds can really improve quality of life. Wishing you and you Mom all the best.

pS. Because this is titled heart failure I assumed you meant CHF plus Afib but After rereading not sure my comments apply

Re: Heart Failure....

blackhole99 — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 18:15:47 GMT

@CatsyCline after reading some of the subsequent posts I realized people do not know what they are talking about when it comes to afib. First off, find out if your mother is always in afib(has a fast irregular heart beat, or is in rhythm and goes into afib periodically). arrhythmia can be very dangerous. Since your mom went into failure and had to be hospitalized this no doubt is going to be ongoing for her. I would find out from her cardiologist what he suggests you do for her so she does not keep ending up in the hospital in heart failure.

Re: Heart Failure....

RedTop — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 18:32:24 GMT

My 85 year old MIL passed from CHF. After a mild heart attack, a cath revealed heavy plaque buildup that could not be ballooned for stent placement. With advanced COPD, my MIL was not healthy enough for bypass surgery.

With two major organs not being able to perform normally, she was diagnosed with CHF. There was an immediate decline in her health, and she passed within 6 weeks of her diagnosis.

Your mother was prescribed medication that is chemically meant to help with fluid build up. Once the heart weakens, and cannot pump efficiently to supply oxygen enriched blood to other organs, systemic failure begins. There is reason for concern.

Re: Heart Failure....

hckynut — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 18:54:47 GMT

@CatsyCline

I was classified as having/being in CHF after my 2nd heart attack. For myself, that was because of a low EF numbers. Had to follow a CHF program, mostly for me just limiting my fluid intake. Was put on Plavix by my Cardiologist, but had already been on Coumadin/Warfarin blood thinner, prior to both heart attacks. Was on this blood thinner because of my 2 episodes of PE.

Worked hard in my 36 Cardiac Rehab Classes, along with regular vigorous exercises at home 3 days a week. Had another Echocardiogram done about 3 months later, and my EF numbers no longer classified me as suffering from CHF. My most recent EF numbers were 45-50, which while not the best, allow me to still do what I love doing most, which is vigorous Ice Skating for 2 hours 3 times a week.

Am no longer on blood thinners and have no limit on my fluid intake.

Like your mom, very few people I have met over my many years, "like taking pills", including me. In that respect, it is no different than your mom. Me personally? I take 6 Prescription Meds daily, for differing reasons. Some for Cardiovascular Disease, others for my diagnosed Anxiety/Panic Disorder.

I sincerely hope your mother is able to live a pretty good life in spite of her battles with these heart, and other medical issues. For my 79th birthday my wife gave me a T-Shirt saying: "Getting Old is not for Sissies"! I love it, and for many it is very accurate.

CHF---Congestive Heart Failure

EF--- Ejection Fraction

PE---Pulmonary Embolism/Lung Blood Clot

hckynut(john)

Re: Heart Failure....

hckynut — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 19:15:01 GMT

@blackhole99 wrote:
I have been in permanent afib for 3 years and take Metoprolol to slow down my heart rate and Warfarin to prevent a stroke. I am 67 and cannot imagine dealing with afib at 88 on my own. It is imperative that you take your meds. consistently and on time or you may have grave results. I was on Xarelto a blood thinner for about a year and although it was convenient I was black and blue everywhere and also had bleeding gums. For me Warfarin was the better choice, but it requires blood test every month and every 2 weeks if for some reason you are not within optimum range. I'm lucky and do not have any shortness of breath, chest pain or swelling so far. but I will at some point and will deal with that when it comes. Good luck with your mother.

@blackhole99

I was on Coumadin/Warfarin for 7+ long years. Blood tests once a month? That would have been a treat for me, heck, once a week would have felt like a gift for me.

Over those long years my average full blood draws were 3 times a week, on a good week. Many weeks I went to the hospital all 7 days, weekends I had to go directly to the lab to have it drawn. They would get my INR/ProTime reading/Call it to my Pulmonologist, who in turn would call me and tell my how many milligrams of Comadin/Warfarin to take that night.

I also was on LoPressor (Metoprolol) from 2002 until about 9-10 months ago. It was not to slow down my heart, it was to maintain as low of a Blood Pressure number that I could, while still being able to function at my usually high activity level. I have never had a high BP, this Metoprolol, 25mg per day, was to help keep my BP around 90/60 , which for me is a good number.

Were I to need a blood thinner again? Ain't no way in he!! I would take any of these(so called-cover-it-all) blood thinners, I don't care what name it goes by. Coumadin/Wafarin has been proven for many decades to do what it is supposed to do. Side effects? Of course, I don't know a prescription med that doesn't.

I hope your current INR/ProTime regimen continues to work well for you, and hopefully at some point, something to end your permanent Afib, comes along in the medical or science field.

hckynut(john)

Re: Heart Failure....

CatsyCline — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 19:40:40 GMT

Asking about experiences with Heart Failure because I'm frustrated that mom isn't taking this seriously. She thinks she "Got This" from stress.

My mother had 3 surgeries in 18 months - all elective. first at 85 a spine surgery which made her very sick from the anesthsia which left her with nerve damge. then 7 months later hip replacement and then a 2nd hip replacement exactly 6 months later. her osteo surgeon did not want to do the 2nd hip surgery at that time but my mother insisted on having it done..

She ended up in ICU because of the AFIB after hip surgery last November. She was in the rehab floor for her hip replacement when she was transferred to ICU. She had a very rapid heartbeat (doesn't feel it) . After a few days the doctors were about to do a Cardioversion - when her heart reset to normal sinus rythym. She was discharged with Cardizem and Plavix and my sister took her to Florida

Back home in June she told her cardio doc in she doesnt like all of these pills and why should she be on them. So he decreased her Cardizem dosage from 240mg to 180mg and stopped the Plavix. My sister was with her and didnt say a word. My sister is really sticking her head in the sand too. She thinks this condition is "intermittent" and it will go away.

Fast forward one month and when I arrived to stay with her in July she could barely move off the couch. Was eating corn chips but no dinner. She had no energy for days she said . Her feet and ankles looked like eggplants. I said you need to see a doctor - her PCP wouldn't see said go to hospital. She put up some resistance to go the the ER. Finally, I pushed her ADT box button and the paramedics came and took her to the ER in the Ambulance (they said as a precaution). I got there and she was in an ER room in Heart Failure. Her bpm average of 185-195bpm. She was hospitalized for 3 days; the hospital cardio bumped up her Cardizem to the original dose (240mg/day) and put her on Eliquis.

She takes metropolol for her BP. She doesnt have a good grasp on her condition and she blames the hospitalist and the hospital cardiologist - from her hip replacemnet surgery - for her condition. Her feet have been swollen for a year now. She won't wear shoes. She forgets to weigh herself (to check if fluid accumulating) and she knows to watch the sodium but ignores it. The hospital cardiologist told me mom will have to stay on these meds permanently. She refuses to believe it. She was a very healthy person so for her its difficult to accept she is no longer in great shape and all that eating oatmeal daily every morning doesn't work anymore. She lives alone by choice, she wants to stay in her home. She has a housekeeper who comes in 2x a week.

IMy mother has always been in charge of everything and it's very hard to convince her of anything she doesnt believe. Its her way or the highway.

Sorry just worried about her.

ed. for typos

Re: Heart Failure....

hckynut — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 19:38:49 GMT

@blackhole99 wrote:

@CatsyCline after reading some of the subsequent posts I realized people do not know what they are talking about when it comes to afib. First off, find out if your mother is always in afib(has a fast irregular heart beat, or is in rhythm and goes into afib periodically). arrhythmia can be very dangerous. Since your mom went into failure and had to be hospitalized this no doubt is going to be ongoing for her. I would find out from her cardiologist what he suggests you do for her so she does not keep ending up in the hospital in heart failure.

@blackhole99 wrote:
@CatsyCline after reading some of the subsequent posts I realized people do not know what they are talking about when it comes to afib. First off, find out if your mother is always in afib(has a fast irregular heart beat, or is in rhythm and goes into afib periodically). arrhythmia can be very dangerous. Since your mom went into failure and had to be hospitalized this no doubt is going to be ongoing for her. I would find out from her cardiologist what he suggests you do for her so she does not keep ending up in the hospital in heart failure.

@blackhole99

Would you be so kind as to point out, specifically, who these "people do not know what they are talking about when it comes to afib" might be? I happen to be one that does not like "generalization" when it comes to negative comments. If, and when I have something to say, negative or positive, I address it to only that specific person.

I have said here numerous times, I do not have any personal experience with Afib. I did however attend several classes during my 72 Cardiac Rehab Program, specifically addressed to those patients in the room suffering from Afib and some of the same with additional Cardiac issues.

To repeat, everyone's body is different, and all Cardiac Events are not the same. How simple it would be for Cardiologists if every patient could be treated the same and have the same successful outcomes when they experience any of the many types of Cardiac Events.

Be well,

hckynut(john)

Re: Heart Failure....

RedTop — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 20:20:50 GMT

@CatsyCline,

I am very sorry for this situation, since you do seem to realize the seriousness of your mothers condition.

Even if your mother takes her meds as prescribed, they are no more than a bandaid, and at some point, nothing is going to help.

I wish you the best once the veil of denial comes off for your mom, and your sister.

Re: Heart Failure....

Montana — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 20:24:44 GMT

@CatsyCline wrote:

... She was a very healthy person so for her its difficult to accept she is no longer in great shape and all that eating oatmeal daily every morning doesn't work anymore ...

@CatsyCline, why is eating oatmeal every morning, bad for your mother? I eat it every day too.

Re: Heart Failure....

blackhole99 — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 20:43:54 GMT

@hckynutI'm assuming the negative comment you are referring to, is that I said subsequent posters didn't know what they are talking about. I don't consider that statement negative, just an observation. I know some who post here do not care for generalization, I have been called out before, but that's not my problem. I don't think less of you or them because we don't think or feel the same way. If you think less of me because I generalize, then so be it.

Re: Heart Failure....

wonderfulworld — Sun, 19 Aug 2018 01:52:18 GMT

@CatsyCline wrote:
Asking about experiences with Heart Failure because I'm frustrated that mom isn't taking this seriously. She thinks she "Got This" from stress.

My mother had 3 surgeries in 18 months - all elective. first at 85 a spine surgery which made her very sick from the anesthsia which left her with nerve damge.   then 7 months later hip replacement and then a 2nd hip replacement exactly 6 months later. her osteo surgeon did not want to do the 2nd hip surgery at that time but my mother insisted on having it done..

She ended up in ICU because of the AFIB after hip surgery last November.   She was in the rehab floor for her hip replacement when she was transferred to ICU. She had a very rapid heartbeat (doesn't feel it) . After a few days the doctors were about to do a Cardioversion - when her heart reset to normal sinus rythym. She was discharged with Cardizem and Plavix and my sister took her to Florida

Back home in June she told her cardio doc in she doesnt like all of these pills and why should she be on them. So he decreased her Cardizem dosage from 240mg to 180mg and stopped the Plavix. My sister was with her and didnt say a word. My sister is really sticking her head in the sand too. She thinks this condition is "intermittent" and it will go away.

Fast forward one month and when I arrived to stay with her in July she could barely move off the couch. Was eating corn chips but no dinner. She had no energy for days she said . Her feet and ankles looked like eggplants. I said you need to see a doctor - her PCP wouldn't see said go to hospital. She put up some resistance to go the the ER. Finally, I pushed her ADT box button and the paramedics came and took her to the ER in the Ambulance (they said as a precaution). I got there and she was in an ER room in Heart Failure. Her bpm average of 185-195bpm. She was hospitalized for 3 days; the hospital cardio bumped up her Cardizem to the original dose (240mg/day) and put her on Eliquis.

She takes metropolol for her BP.   She doesnt have a good grasp on her condition and she blames the hospitalist and the hospital cardiologist - from her hip replacemnet surgery - for her condition. Her feet have been swollen for a year now. She won't wear shoes. She forgets to weigh herself (to check if fluid accumulating) and she knows to watch the sodium but ignores it. The hospital cardiologist told me mom will have to stay on these meds permanently. She refuses to believe it. She was a very healthy person so for her its difficult to accept she is no longer in great shape and all that eating oatmeal daily every morning doesn't work anymore. She lives alone by choice, she wants to stay in her home. She has a housekeeper who comes in 2x a week.

IMy mother has always been in charge of everything and it's very hard to convince her of anything she doesnt believe. Its her way or the highway.

Sorry just worried about her.

ed. for typos

I 'hear' your worry. I lived your fears with my mother and mother in law who have both passed away ( in their mid 80's) and this is how I see the experience in retrospect. There are things I would do differently now.

I 'beat that dead horse' too much and too often. I should have respected her right to do it her way. There is a natural end to all life on earth and at some point the course cannot be turned around no matter how much you might wish it. It is hard to know what preserves life and adds to the quality of life and what prolongs death and causes more discomfort.

If she is functioning, of sound mind and chooses not to take her medicine or wants to live independently (and is coping with some help) and were my mother and I could do it all over again I would have let her.

She may never understand her condition, the why and what of the treatment and will probably 'fight' you and the drs to the end. That is who she is and as you said has always been.

Like you, I tried to help and support but ended up totally stressed out and physically worn out and in the end fighting a losing battle. Enjoy the time you have with her now.

Re: Heart Failure....

hckynut — Sun, 19 Aug 2018 01:59:01 GMT

@blackhole99

I put "quotation marks" around what was said in the post to which I was referring. It was taken by myself as what you said, and my interpretation of those words. If you do not consider the words I "quoted" as negative, guess we have a differing opinion.

hckynut(john)

Re: Heart Failure....

Tyak — Sun, 19 Aug 2018 02:06:14 GMT

OP, I believe everyone with A-Fib is put on a blood thinner and Eliquis is about the best of the new thinners. I was on it for allmost 2 years to treat a DVT in my leg and was then able to get off it. I was fortunate to never have a bleeding problem or black and blue bruises while on it.