topic Re: The way to bend that spares your spine in Wellness

The way to bend that spares your spine

GingerPeach — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:05:45 GMT

I just read an NPR article on how to correctly bend one's back when picking something off the ground, and more.

For those of you who can still bend, here's how:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/02/26/587735283/lost-art-of-bending-over-how-other-cultures-spare-their-spines?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180226

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

sidsmom — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:18:27 GMT

Hip Hinge...yes!

From someone who has done a zillion Kettlebell swings

in her lifetime, the hip hinge is DNA at this point.

Stick your booty out when bending to pick something up.

Happy Hinging!

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

QueenDanceALot — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:39:54 GMT

Teaching the hip hinge isn't as easy as you might think.

Most people lack the hamstring flexibility and have what we call "gluteal amnesia".

It's a modern scourge.

Most people I train will squat, not hinge, thinking what they are doing is hinging.

I have to cover my eyes when I see most people do kettlebell swings.

OWWIEEEEE

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

gma2ms — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:46:06 GMT

Great post. Fortunately I had a trainer who taught me this years ago. This is critical for anyone with Osteopenia or Osteoporosis.

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

dex — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:47:28 GMT

My Pilates instructor is teaching us some new body movements too.She has us stand with the rib hip connection for strength and stability.I know when I bend over that way I have a flat back.To do it stand feet shoulder with apart,pull your stomach up under your rib cage and drop your ribs to your hips..You will also find in this position that your arms have much more freedom of movement too.

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

ALRATIBA — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:50:38 GMT

I just checked ... I do the hip hinge thing ... I have a back issue and that's the only way I can bend to pick something up.

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

hckynut — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:53:57 GMT

Any and all info about protecting the spine, given by reputable sources, are never bad. One of the best ways to help prevent spinal injuries(especially the lower spine) is to work on keeping the Abdominal Muscles Strong(they support the spine from the front) and work on keeping all rear side muscles as flexible as possible.

This includes Calf Muscles and connective tissues/thigh biceps(hamstrings) and all connecting Tendons and Ligaments, and Spinal Erector Muscles. Doing this will HELP protect the spine, as will using some common sense when lifting any weight item. Just bending over can set off some very painful back issues.

I do all of the above, daily, along with using my Teeter Inversion Table, and while I do not claim to always be pain free, I can still function in every aspect of my very active way of life.

@GingerPeach, nice of you to post this.

hckynut(john)

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

QueenDanceALot — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:55:03 GMT

@dexwrote:
My Pilates instructor is teaching us some new body movements too.She has us stand with the rib hip connection for strength and stability.I know when I bend over that way I have a flat back.To do it stand feet shoulder with apart,pull your stomach up under your rib cage and drop your ribs to your hips..You will also find in this position that your arms have much more freedom of movement too.

People seem to understand this (drawing the diaphragm down to the pelvis) but when they do a hinge, maintaining that position, they can't get their hips back enough and end up doing the "drinky bird" move, which is just bending over.

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

hckynut — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 21:24:45 GMT

@QueenDanceALot

I completely agree with you. Tight hamstring muscles can and are the culprit in many knee injuries also, along with lumbar problems. Strong Ab muscles contracted when bending over decrease the strain on the spine. Flexible back muscles make bending over much easier.

Swinging any kind of weight, from my experiences, can be a very dangerous thing to do in relation to the spine. Think about it! A person "yings, when it should be a yang", in other words, all their body parts are not in sink. Pick up alight weight/swing it from side to side, and hope all muscle groups are in unison, one is still contracting while you are asking it's "opposing muscle" to contract at the same time. The body does not work that way and it sets anyone up for an injury.

My job for over 30 years was lifting reels of telephone wire weighing from 50-80lbs, using on 3 fingers on each hand/turning my body 180° at the same time while lifting. 1 lift when everything involved is not in sink? Hello back injury. Myself and most of my co-workers needed back surgeries over those years. Some chose to "swing those reels while turning", did not turn out well for most of them.

Too many forget that the feet are connected to the legs/legs to the glutes/glutes effect the hips, and all these are in some way connected to the spine. As the old saying goes: "any foundation is only as good as it's weakest link", and there are hundreds of studies that indicate that exact thing.

I use mostly my BowFlex/Total Gym and for maintaining my upper body strength, no swinging anything, just precise resistance going into and out of muscle contraction. Weight resists you on the upward motion/your strength resist the the weight on the way down.

Had tons of injuries, but none from using free weighs/dumbbells or a weight bench or machine. That's enough from me!

hckynut(john)

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

QueenDanceALot — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 21:33:02 GMT

@hckynutwrote:

Any and all info about protecting the spine, given by reputable sources, are never bad. One of the best ways to help prevent spinal injuries(especially the lower spine) is to work on keeping the Abdominal Muscles Strong(they support the spine from the front) and work on keeping all rear side muscles as flexible as possible.

This includes Calf Muscles and connective tissues/thigh biceps(hamstrings) and all connecting Tendons and Ligaments, and Spinal Erector Muscles. Doing this will HELP protect the spine, as will using some common sense when lifting any weight item. Just bending over can set off some very painful back issues.

I do all of the above, daily, along with using my Teeter Inversion Table, and while I do not claim to always be pain free, I can still function in every aspect of my very active way of life.

@GingerPeach, nice of you to post this.

hckynut(john)

@hckynut

It is also critical to strengthen the gluteals and hamstrings which, in a proper hinge to extension (as in the deadlift and the swing), are the movers, NOT the lower back!

I don't mean to belabor the point, but I see such bad mechanics often on both the deadlift and the swing that it makes me a little crazy.

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

QueenDanceALot — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 21:37:49 GMT

I just remembered a yoga workshop I attended several years ago where the instructor was discussiong this very thing.

She called the hip hinge "The public toilet posture".

I thought that was a pretty good cue!

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

QueenDanceALot — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 21:59:34 GMT

Stuart McGill, who was quoted and referenced in the article, is "the" back health guru, advising sports teams and athletes all over the world. He's got several videos you can access through youtube that show his exercises to promoto spinal stability.

Also, his "Torso Muscular Endurance Test Battery" consists of 3 tests to evaluate core strength and stability.

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

hckynut — Tue, 27 Feb 2018 04:17:02 GMT

@QueenDanceALot,

My experiences and studies I have read has proven to myself, not anyone else, that hamstring flexibility is more important than their strength. If one walks enough they hamstrings do much of the moving, as compared to the quads.

When running age group competitive road races, unless the races were primarily uphill, the hamstrings moved my body forward, not my quads. Now for my skating(state winter myopic speed skating competitions) my a quads and hip flexors were the primarily acceleration and strength muscle groups. Hamstrings pretty much along for the ride.

As a skater, the glutes do get a lot of work, but more for supporting the back than used for the skating movement. Maybe genders differ when it comes to glutes and their use, I really don't know. I do know that I have seen very few male athletes, in any sport. Spending much time strengthening their glutes.

I do the Williams Exercises for my back and have been since the 1970's, and activating the glutes is included in his back regimens.

With my spine minus 3 lumbar discs, I still find my hamstring/groin/ITB, and hip flexor flexibilty to be much more beneficial for my back, as opposed to strengthening my glutes or my hamstrings.

Not familiar with the hinge, but knew enough from my power lifting experience to stay away from the deadlift. How that relates to this "hinge or the swing thing", I have no idea. My concern for my back was enough for me, along with many Power Lifting Competitions I attended, to completely steer my away from even considering the dead lift. It wouldn't have helped me in any of my athletic endeavors.

Whatworks for others, you certainly are more familiar with than I. But when it comes to what has kept me, at 78, and 2 back surgeries as flexible as I am presently, has proven to me, my routine is the best one for me.

Like you, I cringe watching many doing movements completely wrong, while hoping to attain just the opposite outcomes.

hckynut(john)

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

QueenDanceALot — Tue, 27 Feb 2018 23:54:34 GMT

@hckynut

My reason for bringing up the deadlift in relation to this subject is that a proper hip hinge is a requirement for a proper deadlift. You can't hinge, you don't deadlift. Period.

It is also a requirement for a kettlebell swing, but most people I see in the gym squat the swing, they don't hinge. It's quite amazing the many contortions people use in their interpretation of that exercise. It's frightening.

With regards to hamstrings, they need both strength and flexibility (extensibility). If they can't extend to their optimal length, they won't be able to generate optimal force to work with the glutes to extend the hip, which is their job. If someone just walks for exercise, they may not need stronger hamstrings, but walking alone will not develop sufficient hamstring strength for many sports or physical endeavor. But yes, flexibitiliy (extensibility) is crucial for a proper hip hinge (otherwise known as "the athletic stance".

I was just reading a coach's contribution to a site dedicated to strength and conditioning and he was talking about how many high school athletes have weak posterior chains. And I remember talking to a young man who played football in High School and he liked to brag about his squat but when I asked him how much he deadlifted he told me "oh, the coach says it's too dangerous. We don't do that". The deadlift is the #1 exercise to develop the muscles of the posterior chain. Does that mean it's done well by most people? No, and when it done badly, the likelihood of injury is great. And many coaches are afraid of it, as they don't know how to teach it. A real shame. Regarding powerlifting, the best powerlifters have good mechanics in training, but oftentimes when they are going for a 1 RM in competition it looks to the viewer that their mechanics break down, and indeed, if they were to round their backs during their training hours, they certainly would. But a winning competition lift is a different animal, and strongmen who have good mechanics and balanced strength, as long as their training is solid (which it is, if they have those things) they can get away with it.

My knowledge of this is not all book learning, but experience as well. When I began lifting almost 36 years ago, I trained with powerlifters, and lucky for me, they were good at what they did, and their approach rubbed off on me.

Do I teach everyone I train the deadlift? No. What I DO teach everyone (either at the beginning of training, or farther into it, depending on their capabilites) is how to engage their posterior chain. Most people lack strength there, it's a scourge of modern living (as I think I already mentioned).

Edited to add: Actually, in thinking this out a bit more, I DO try to teach posterior chain movement from the beginning, no matter HOW inexperienced the lifter/exerciser is. But there are levels of engagement, some as simple as teaching how to line up the skeleton from the foot to the head, just in a standing posture.

Yes, the deadlift IS the king of movements for developing the posterior chain, BUT it is not the ONLY movement to help do so.

Happy Skating to You!!!

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

SeaMaiden — Tue, 27 Feb 2018 21:36:37 GMT

Before I had both knees and both hips replaced....I walked pretty much straight legged...and if I did pick anything up I did it with straight legs,,,.my knees did not bend well ( they were swollen and stiff) and my hips did not work well either.

Now that is have joints that work again thanks to modern science...🙏🏻 I am learning to squat and use my gluteus and legs again. My back use to hurt all the time before joint surgery....now my back never hurts!👍👍👍 I can pick things up the proper way and save my back.

I do squats now to strengthen my legs from years of not walking much because of the pain from OS and now can walk for miles.

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

hckynut — Tue, 27 Feb 2018 22:37:01 GMT

@QueenDanceALot

Thank you for your explanation of "the hinge" and I thing "the swing". Never heard those words used by any of my Physical Therapists or the Exercise Physiologists I worked with over the decades. Not sure if kettlebells were even a thing back in the '60's-70's, if they were, I never was made aware of them in reference to exercises I used for my specific sports and training routines.

I'm guessing my glutes got the strength they needed from my doing squats/leg presses, and at one time, thigh bicep curls on 2 in 1 leg extension machines I used. While skating certainly activates the glutes, they are very minor in acceleration or power needed for skating, in the 100 meter or the 400 meter speed skating competitions.

A lot of knowledge began with the advent of high $$$ Athletes being injured and unable to play. For those footing their salaries they are the ones I feel were/are responsible for the beginning of Sports Medicine and doctors and therapists that specialize in sports injuries and much shorter recovery times.

While I keep up some with the latest in human physiology in connection with athletically interested individual, my primary interest now is keeping with I know that did work, and still works in maintaining my level of fitness, and staying away from things that might cause an injury, excluding my ice skating, which I love and will take that risk.

Having injuries to most every part of my body, I know what worked best to recover from them, in relation to the knowledge present in the era of my injuries. Having had my first back surgery in 1974(L-5/S-1 removed because of rupture), from that point I looked for everything about "the back" that I could find at that time. It was pretty limited, to say the least. The old "if it hurts, don't do it" was pretty much the mantra of most family doctors.

I was fortunate to have found an Orthopod Surgeon, that was also an avid athlete. He told me exactly what I would have to do if I wanted to return to my running Road Races, and back to playing contact hockey again. I celebrated birthday #35 during my almost 1 month hospitalization for my back surgery. No laser or Outpatient Surgery back then.

What I learned and practiced by then, I updated by attending many Clinics devoted to overall health, and specifically, things connected to running and other athletic endeavors. Many well known Exercise Physiologists/Cardiologists/Physical Therapists, just to mention a few. What I learned has been invaluable for myself, and the many others I could pass these things and methods, to help them understand and hopefully prevent or minimize injuries.

Will certainly file away your advanced knowledge in case I ever feel like some of it I might need and/or try down my adding of chronological years.

As always, I, and most that read this forum benefit greatly from your knowledge along with your own personal experiences.

hckynut(john)

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

QueenDanceALot — Wed, 28 Feb 2018 00:10:07 GMT

@hckynut

I don't know when the hinge first became a "thing" - I don't think I knew about it prior to 2008 which was when I took up kettlebell training. Prior to that we may just have called that postiion the "athletic stance", or we were just cued on how to do it, without naming it.

I totally agree that the knowledge and information has grown exponentially to the high investment made in athletes. Keeping them on the field, the ice, the pool, the court, wherever, that's their bread and butter. Of course, that clashes at times with the greater emphasis power and speed and the injuries associated with the much greater loads placed on the joints and connective tissues. Look at baseball pitchers - throw faster, throw harder. Yes, mechanics are better understood and players are made stronger, but that comes at a cost. You never see a pitcher pitch an entire game anymore. They can't. But, hey, that's another subject!

Anyway, I would never mess with your program! I'm no skater, the most skating I've ever done was at a pond by the house I grew up in. I twirled a little, but that's about it. haha. I suspect that what you do is sort of a hybrid hip hinge, more of a short stop (back to baseball!) stancefor a lot of your skating.

I just think whatever you're doing, keep on doing it. The joy of life is doing what you love and of course being with the people (and animals!) that you love.

You are an inspiration to many and you will continue to be!

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

sfnative — Wed, 28 Feb 2018 07:17:02 GMT

@GingerPeachwrote:
I just read an NPR article on how to correctly bend one's back when picking something off the ground, and more.

For those of you who can still bend, here's how:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/02/26/587735283/lost-art-of-bending-over-how-other-cultures-spare-their-spines?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180226

@GingerPeach

Very misleading, your lead-in, and incorrect to boot. Knew exactly what the outcome would be.

Always bend from the hips. A no-brainer, providing your anatomy can handle it.

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

GingerPeach — Wed, 28 Feb 2018 17:28:10 GMT

What are you talking about, @sfnative?

Bending at the hips is what the article is about.

If there is anything incorrect or misleading, you may want to contact NPR.

Re: The way to bend that spares your spine

hckynut — Thu, 01 Mar 2018 16:43:20 GMT

Always love watching Western movies. Always thought the bar foot rail was there because ole Wyatt and Doc Holiday wore boots. After learning a bit about my physiological make up, I learned differently.

I know from my own personal experiences with back surgeries and my interests in exercise physiology, that when a humans knee is locked, or close to being locked, the back muscles are contracted. Stand for very long and one's spine will tighten up. Tight muscles are more prone to injury than loose muscles, which also are generally more flexible, spinal muscles.

Flat back or cashew back, bending the knees always puts less strain on the spine. It can easily be seen on that NPR article's pictures. The "table back" lady also does not have her knees anywhere close to the locked position. Anyone that has ever had a serious back issue, readily finds out what movements cause them pain, sometimes excruciating pain. If they do not file that in their memory bank?

There are certain activities, one in which I love, where one cannot keep the PERFECT hinge while engaging in that activity. That would be ice skating, hockey style. There can be no "table position" while at the same time getting the maximum power skating strides. Throw in holding a hockey stick and no hockey player, that I have ever seen, plays the sport in that "table" position, or standing straight up. Figure skaters? They can use a more straight up skating position, but figure skating and hockey skating are much different skating styles..

This skater knows the strain it puts on my spine and that is why I spend more time than most keeping my Ab muscles as strong as possible, and my hamstring and other backside leg muscles and connective tissue as flexible as possible. I benefit more than skating by doing these necessary exercises, it makes all my body's physical movements much more fluid, which in turn makes every day life much easier. Easier movement equals less energy used which equals much less fatigue from living even a sedentary life.

Those that "don't have time" to protect their spine? In the future they may have no choice, and time somehow magically appears. I have seen this more times than I care to remember from many co-workers and friends, even some co-workers where I found them time during our lunch breaks.

Too many do not understand the levels of debilitation caused with serious back issues. Things as simple as being to stand up and walk/ forget putting on a pair of socks(moreso if one has an obstruction sticking out between their chest and waist) or tying shoes or leaning over a bathroom sink to wash your hands.

Much of these injuries can be avoided or at the very least, made less debilitating. But, so many "just don't have time"! Yeh, right !!!!!

hckynut(john)