topic Re: Update to Communion and the flu. in Wellness

Update to Communion and the flu.

151949 — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 23:26:10 GMT

At church this AM our priest announced that only she would be taking the host & wine - symbolically for us all. This decision after she heard on the news that 10% of the deaths in the USA right now are patients who have the flu.

I was stunned - 10% of all deaths are caused by the flu. Especially in our community where there is a huge population of elderly , this was a very good decision IMO. We all participated in the communion prayers as usual, but just did not go up to the rail. Boy oh boy - we got out of church early as well. I admire our priest for her wise decision.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

webbgarner1 — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 23:32:01 GMT

@151949 I think it was a wise decision. Germs lurk everywhere ,but why put everyone at risk. God knows what is in your heart and communuin can be done at a later time.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

henderson — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 23:43:47 GMT

At our church (nondenominational) we use small plastic cups for the grape juice.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

SleepyTime — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 23:47:05 GMT

I am Catholic and I would like to see the greetings and "peace be with you" skipped during these months as well.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

Jersey Born — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 00:04:06 GMT

That 10% figure is for flu and pneumonia, and not just for flu. Not all pnemonia cases have anything to do with, or have any association with influenza. There are many illnesses circulating right now, including adenoviruses, coronaviruses and metapneumovirus, too. If a person tests negative for influenza, they are then tested for these other viruses, so only then are they discovered. However, once a person tests positive for influenza, medical professionals do no further testing, so it may be something other than influenza, that has simultaneously co-infected some people that is killing them, rather than influenza itself.

A special education teacher in Texas named Crystal Whitley was vaccinated against influenza in October 2017, and she is now on life support with H1N1, H3N2, pneumonia, and MRSA. The two strains of influenza she simultaneously contracted are both contained in the 2017-2018 flu shot, so the shot did not lessen the severity of her illness, considering her current, very grave condition.

I don't know what is going on this flu season, but it is certainly wise, and very thoughtful, of your priest to curtail the host and wine offering for now.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

Noel7 — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 00:25:13 GMT

The pneumonia used in the stats are only for the pneumomia that occurs because of the flu. Related to.

There are three major causes of pneumonia. They are not all classified under flu.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

Jersey Born — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 01:00:46 GMT

The CDC indicates otherwise, Noel7.

"What categories does CDC use to estimate flu-associated deaths?

CDC uses two categories of underlying cause of death information listed on death certificates: pneumonia and influenza (P&I) causes and respiratory and circulatory (R&C) causes. CDC uses statistical models with records from these two categories to make estimates of influenza-associated mortality. CDC uses underlying R&C deaths (which include P&I deaths) as the primary outcome in its mortality modeling because R&C deaths provide an estimate of deaths that include secondary respiratory or cardiac complications that can follow influenza. R&C causes of death are more sensitive to describe flu-related deaths than underlying P&I deaths and more specific than deaths from all causes."

The numbers of estimated flu deaths are simply that-- estimates. I wish it were otherwise, so we could get a true and clear picture of what is causing deaths this winter.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

newname0 — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 01:21:03 GMT

wrote:
I am Catholic and I would like to see the greetings and "peace be with you" skipped during these months as well.

Our Pastor this morning said we would not be shaking hands during the Peace Be With You moment nor would we be having the cup shared. Seems they all got the same message. This will be for the whole month of February.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

Shawnie — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 01:24:06 GMT

wrote:
I am Catholic and I would like to see the greetings and "peace be with you" skipped during these months as well.

I am Methodist and I agree with you. Now is not the time to be shaking hands and hugging people. We do communion by intinction and I will be skipping it until the flu season is over.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

Noel7 — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 01:41:08 GMT

wrote:
The CDC indicates otherwise, Noel7.

"What categories does CDC use to estimate flu-associated deaths?
CDC uses two categories of underlying cause of death information listed on death certificates: pneumonia and influenza (P&I) causes and respiratory and circulatory (R&C) causes. CDC uses statistical models with records from these two categories to make estimates of influenza-associated mortality. CDC uses underlying R&C deaths (which include P&I deaths) as the primary outcome in its mortality modeling because R&C deaths provide an estimate of deaths that include secondary respiratory or cardiac complications that can follow influenza. R&C causes of death are more sensitive to describe flu-related deaths than underlying P&I deaths and more specific than deaths from all causes."

The numbers of estimated flu deaths are simply that-- estimates. I wish it were otherwise, so we could get a true and clear picture of what is causing deaths this winter.

What am I missing, because you just highlighted influenza associated mortality. I would assume it would have to be considered an estimate as long as not all supposed flu cases are tested.

@Jersey Born

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

marlielou — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 01:58:37 GMT

wrote:
That 10% figure is for flu and pneumonia, and not just for flu. Not all pnemonia cases have anything to do with, or have any association with influenza. There are many illnesses circulating right now, including adenoviruses, coronaviruses and metapneumovirus, too. If a person tests negative for influenza, they are then tested for these other viruses, so only then are they discovered. However, once a person tests positive for influenza, medical professionals do no further testing, so it may be something other than influenza, that has simultaneously co-infected some people that is killing them, rather than influenza itself.

A special education teacher in Texas named Crystal Whitley was vaccinated against influenza in October 2017, and she is now on life support with H1N1, H3N2, pneumonia, and MRSA. The two strains of influenza she simultaneously contracted are both contained in the 2017-2018 flu shot, so the shot did not lessen the severity of her illness, considering her current, very grave condition.

I don't know what is going on this flu season, but it is certainly wise, and very thoughtful, of your priest to curtail the host and wine offering for now.

@Jersey Born this was explained on another thread when you asked about pneumonia, the explanation by @pitdakota who is an expert in this field.

I'll post it again here:

"For example, there is research that supports individuals with CHF and respiratory problems have fewer hospital admissions during flu months if they receive the flu vaccine.

They do track the deaths related to flu & pneumonia. And only deaths associated with pneumonia that is communicable are counted in that category.

We have a poster that consistently posts that anyone that dies of pneumonia is counted in that category. And that is not the case. If someone dies of aspiration pneumonia, they do not place that death in the flu/pneumonia category."

and

"The CDC classifies flu and pneumonia together, but it is only the communicable type of pneumonia that is counted in this classification.

If someone dies of aspiration pneumonia, that death is not classified in the flu/pneumonia category. Same with pneumonia that might occur after being hospitalized for a stroke. The death is counted in the stroke category because without the stroke, the pneumonia would not have occurred.

So all of the deaths attributed to the overarching diagnosis of pneumonia are not counted in with the flu."

https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Flu-Contagion-Worse-Than-Previously-Known/m-p/4395943#M1208221

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

marlielou — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 01:50:51 GMT

Also here's what @pitdakota added to that thread:

" @Noel7, @marlielou, just signed on and saw the notifications regarding me about your comments to @Jersey Born. Waving hello to you both.

I think what confuses people without knowing about how the CDC compiles their statistics they report as yearly data is that not all pneumonia deaths are categorized with influenza in the mortality data.

There are multiple types and causes of pneumonia. The only pneumonia that is categorized in the category of deaths related to pneumonia and influenza are those that are communicable. So deaths related to aspiration pneumonia, ceretain bacterial pneumonias, or ventilator acquired pneumonia, as well as a plethora of other types of pneumonias are not counted in that category.

Even when someone dies of pneumonia, say related to a bacterial infection acquired while hospitalized for a stroke or other problem, there is not a separate category in the statistical abstract of mortality rates compiled by the CDC for pneumonia. It goes under a broad category of respiratory, which could also include deaths related to black lung disease, for example.

So while they may have data about total numer of deaths in a year related to pneumonia, many of those cases of pneumonia may be caused by factors that are not related to an infectious disease at all. In fact, quite a few of those deaths may be something we call ventilator acquired pneumonia. So only the deaths related to infectious types of pneumonia are put in with the influenza deaths. This gives public health officials important information about progress in regard to number of deaths specifically related to these respiratory diseases that are vaccine preventable. If all types of pneumonia deaths were reported in that category, it would compound the data and not provide useful information for public health.

And just to add more to the conversation about the severity of flu this year, I am receiving some information that adenoviruses are really active right about now and some are severe, which is unusual. Adenoviruses can mimic influenza symptoms, but sometimes differ in that GI symptoms may accompany the respiratory symptoms as well as chills and aches seen with the flu. They don't normally test for adenovirus, but a random sample taken on people reporting to ERs with symptoms of the flu tested positive for adenovirus rather than influenza. So this is something else that may be a concern...adenoviruses that have become more severe. @Noel7, if you are interested....you might google about adenoviruses and the CDC....I think there is some information out there for the public. "

https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Flu-Contagion-Worse-Than-Previously-Known/m-p/4399131#M1208814

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

151949 — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 03:44:44 GMT

wrote:
At our church (nondenominational) we use small plastic cups for the grape juice.

But they are still passed throughout the congregation and are breathed on - coughed on & touched by many people.The bread cubes are passed on a tray and everyone reaches into it and takes one.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

151949 — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 03:49:56 GMT

What a shame that someone had to take this thread on this trip down the rabbit hole about sources of statistics instead of allowing a discussion about how we can attempt to avoid getting the flu.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

Furgirl — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 09:26:43 GMT

And don’t forget mycoplasma and RSV (even in adults). The list just goes on and on.

Im sorry if this is down the rabbit hole, but I found all the information posted very interesting.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

VaBelle35 — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 10:29:49 GMT

At my Church, many people don't shake hands. They cross their arms in front of them or keep them at their sides and just acknowledge you and say "peace be with you" back.

Works for me!

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

151949 — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 12:38:57 GMT

We have totally eliminated the peace until after flu season.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

CelticCrafter — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 14:03:29 GMT

This whole "peace be with you" has gotten out of hand.

What started out as something said to the person next to you has evolved into people reaching back 2 or 3 pews to shake hands.

I never liked it. I don't like touching strangers and I don't like strangers touching me.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

chrystaltree — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 14:25:17 GMT

I don't think that 10% figure is true. However, most if not all churches in this area have been using those tiny plastic cups for communion wine (or grape juice) for years and years. I really didn't think any churches used a communal chalices anymore.

Re: Update to Communion and the flu.

gidgetgh — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 14:37:17 GMT

wrote:
At my Church, many people don't shake hands. They cross their arms in front of them or keep them at their sides and just acknowledge you and say "peace be with you" back.

Works for me!

I freely admit that I haven’t been to church in years, but last time I went my church (Methodist) had started the whole hand shaking thing in the middle of the service ritual. I’m just not a fan. Not because of germs, but because I’m a pretty shy person and I just want to sit quietly and listen to the service and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, everyone jumps to their feet and starts with hand shaking and talking. And, five seconds later, total silence again. Just not a fan. It made me uncomfortable.

As to the OP, good call by the priest, but no priest or minister would need to tell me whether or not we’re going to take communion and drink from a common cup. I would never do that, flu season or not, and no one needs to give me permission to skip it. I can make that decision all by myself.