topic Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults in Wellness

Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

Moonchilde — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 20:51:37 GMT

From Medscape. Interesting. This was a very large study. I still think there are good reasons to take these supplements, other than just fractures.

“Looking at the combination of calcium and vitamin D supplementation, investigators identified 13 trials where the combination was compared with placebo or no treatment. The main trial included in this subanalysis was the Women's Health Initiative, in which over 36,000 women received calcium plus vitamin D, with or without hormone therapy, or placebo.

“Here again, researchers found no clinically relevant association between the use of vitamin D plus calcium supplementation and any of the fracture end points. For hip fracture, the relative risk was 1.09 between the supplemented and unsupplemented groups (95% CI, 0.85–1.39), at an ARD of 0.00. For vertebral fracture, the relative risk reduction was 0.63 (95% CI, 0.29–1.40), at an ARD of -0.00, while for total fractures, the relative risk reduction was 0.90 (95% CI 0.78–1.04), at an ARD of -0.01, compared with no supplementation.

"Sensitivity analyses that excluded low-quality trials and studies that exclusively enrolled patients with particular medical conditions did not alter these results," investigators note.

“The authors caution it is possible that patients living in residential care facilities may still benefit from calcium or vitamin D supplementation, as residents are more at risk for osteoporosis because of multiple lifestyle factors. Thus, "the benefits of calcium and vitamin D supplementation may differ between people living in the community and people living in residential institutions."

“However, among men and women healthy enough to still live in the community, the "findings do not support the routine use of these supplements," the authors stress.

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

puttypiesmom — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 21:11:27 GMT

What prevents fractures in healthy older adults is not falling. Falls cause fractures and Carrie Underwood is a perfect example of breaking a bone(s) when she broke her wrist from a fall and she is young! Yes, she is very young.

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

sidsmom — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 21:28:15 GMT

Wow....this is old news.

Dr. John McDougall has been saying this for YEARS.

He has a newsletter dated February 2007 basically saying

eating/drinking/supplementing your way for stronger bones

is unfounded. In fact that newsletter used references dated 1992.

Stronger bones happens when you -don’t- eat things which

ultimately causes damage to the bones...Animal/Animal byproducts.

Ref:

14) Abelow B. Cross-cultural association between dietary animal protein and hip fracture: a hypothesis. Calcific Tissue Int 50:14-8, 1992.

15) Frassetto LA . Worldwide incidence of hip fracture in elderly women: relation to consumption of animal and vegetable foods. J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 2000 Oct;55(10):M585-92.

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

Moonchilde — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 21:35:01 GMT

@onionsoup wrote:
What prevents fractures in healthy older adults is not falling. Falls cause fractures and Carrie Underwood is a perfect example of breaking a bone(s) when she broke her wrist from a fall and she is young! Yes, she is very young.

Very true, @puttypiesmom. I live in terror of falling. I understand that due to arthritis and stiffness my joints are not always my friends when it comes to balance and I try to stay aware of that. I’ve fallen at different ages enough to know how much I hate it. I’ve never broken anything, by sheer luck. But bruises - OMG.

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

Carmie — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 21:35:03 GMT

Some medications deplete the calcium in our bones. So if you take those meds, you need supplements.

it also helps to do weight training exercises. If we do not use our bodies, we will lose the use of them. The best thing we can do is keep moving.

This sounds silly, but I practice getting up from the middle of the floor unassisted. If you fall down and can’t get up, you will have a problem..even if you never break a bone.

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

cherry — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 21:43:47 GMT

I take pure encapsulation's. I was so depleted in vit D and B12 I am getting shots ,and Rx strength doses ,of these 2 vitamins

For those of us taking metformin, it can stop absorption of these vitamins.

I could tell the difference in the way I felt, after my first megadose of vit D and B 12 shot

If you take PPI ,or acid reducing meds ,this also stops the absorption of these vitamins

I agree with @Moonchilde there is still good reason to take these supplements

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

cherry — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 21:47:44 GMT

My husbands 3 cracked vertabrae are healing nicely from his fall. He drinks a lot of milk ,and uses other dairy products, as well

I think it has helped him. The Dr will check him again next month, to see if he is all healed .

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

Moonchilde — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 01:10:26 GMT

Yes, @cherry and @Carmie, leeching medications are definitely one reason to need contining supplements and to be deficient without knowing it, with consequences.

Calcium = leg cramps for one thing.

Vit D = Many more things in your body than bones - dementia, for example, and your cardiovascular system. I have taken supplemental vit D ever since I was treated for medically dangerous low vitamin D several years ago. I read up and decided that all-around it was something I did NOT want to be low in, ever.

I never knew about B-12 and Metformin until about a year ago. It has definitely made a difference to my musculoskeletal system overall. I don’t go hog wild and take everything that’s pushed, but the ones I do take I have proven to my own satisfaction help me.

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

puttypiesmom — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 00:24:17 GMT

@MoonchildeHave you had your vit d tested since taking it awhile ago? I would like to know if it really increases a person's vit d levels. Please let me know what your recent outcome was. Thank you.

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

puttypiesmom — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 01:03:14 GMT

From what I've read, when someone takes Vit D supplements they still need to get sunshine to activate the Calcitriol and when that doesn't happen Vit D supplements don't work. This time of year much of the country doesn't have sunshine and I'm not so sure that the angle of the sun is correct for the rest of the country.

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

aprildreams — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 01:11:04 GMT

If you take PPI's, you can still absorb calcium from dairy products and one of the calcium pills.....can't remember which one. My dr just told me at my physical.

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

maestra — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 01:36:28 GMT

@Carmie wrote:
Some medications deplete the calcium in our bones. So if you take those meds, you need supplements.

it also helps to do weight training exercises. If we do not use our bodies, we will lose the use of them. The best thing we can do is keep moving.

This sounds silly, but I practice getting up from the middle of the floor unassisted. If you fall down and can’t get up, you will have a problem..even if

@Carmie Exercise is the key and weight training, even if only 'light' weights.

My last bone density showed gains where I had been borderline osteopenia/porosis.

The exercise you do can be used to determine mortality.

Falling scares me; as an adult I have only fallen when walking the dog during the winter. 1 winter in Chicago I fell 3 x-dog was fine.

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

Moonchilde — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 01:40:03 GMT

@onionsoup wrote:
From what I've read, when someone takes Vit D supplements they still need to get sunshine to activate the Calcitriol and when that doesn't happen Vit D supplements don't work. This time of year much of the country doesn't have sunshine and I'm not so sure that the angle of the sun is correct for the rest of the country.

@puttypiesmom, if that were the case, vitamin D supplements would be useless for many - which they are not. According to all medical sites I’ve googled, supplements of vitamin D are the #1 recommended treatment.

As we age, our bodies stop being able to process and store vitamin D like they used to - and just going out in the sun doesn’t solve any problem for milions of people. Supplements are taken in areas with very little winter sunlight and by people who are bedridden in nursing homes, yet the treatment is still effective.

There are also just physical reasons which vary from individual to individual as to why sunlight exposure doesn’t always work (Medscape). As one ages, it is not just a “well go out in the sunlight then, dummy!” issue as others have said in other threads. Once you start aging, you could routinely roast yourself in the sun with second degree burns and you could still be deficient in vitamin D.

You get a much greater amount of vitamin D if you let your skin get pink with sun exposure (Medscape). Yet for many (including me) because of our genetics and coloring, getting sunburned is bad and can greatly increase the risk of skin cancer including melanoma. I don’t want that type of sun exposure, and just being exposed to the sun a minute or two isn’t enough.

“https://www.prevention.com/health/vitamin-d-deficient

As far as what my vitamin D level is now, I don’t have my latest lab work to hand, but I know that I’ve never had any lab work done in the past 6-7 years where it was mentioned to me that it was low OR high, so it must be okay. I was at one time a bit concerned about possible negative effects of taking too much, so I take a 5000 IU capsule every other day now instead of every day. I know that I’ve never gone very high - according to some medical sites many if not most Americans are chronically deficient in vitamin D and stay on the low end of normal even with supplements.

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

september — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 02:21:28 GMT

I don't plan on taking supplements, so see no need to get bone density scans as often as my doctor would like.

My last one was three years ago, and it was good Perhaps in 7 years, I'll get the next one.

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

2blonde — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 20:42:53 GMT

@aprildreams I think you mean calcium citrate (that's what I take now).

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

Teddie — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 02:56:19 GMT

I would be interested in how much those in the study were actually taking. I’m concerned that they were taking too low of an amount, especially the vitamin D, and then concluded it didn’t work. Taking 600 or 1000 is just not enough for the average person.

I completely agree with @Moonchilde that vitamin D is important. In fact, what I am reading and learning is that it is essential. You can not go out in the sun and then your levels are good. There are people who live and work in sunny climates who are deficient.

Its worth reading up on. The multiple benefits caused me to want to always take it.

One other thing, I’ve written before about my husband going in for testing. I suggested he request the vitamin D test, just to see where he was. His came back like 22 or something. He was told he was normal. That is not normal, that is too low. He was not on vitamin D so I suggested he start taking a good amount, so he did. How many people who don’t know about proper levels would have accepted what they were told and went about their way, not knowing they were really deficient.

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

SilleeMee — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 22:36:31 GMT

I take a silica supplement along with D and calcium. The silica for me is the reason I no longer have an abnormally low bone density. I do a lot of resistance band exercises, too.

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

GingerPeach — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 01:24:55 GMT

@Teddie wrote:
I would be interested in how much those in the study were actually taking. I’m concerned that they were taking too low of an amount, especially the vitamin D, and then conclude it didn’t work. Taking 600 or 1000 is just not enough for the average person.

I completely agree with @Moonchilde that vitamin D is important. In fact, what I am reading and learning is that it is essential. You can not go out in the sun and then your levels are good. There are people who live and work in sunny climates who are deficient.

Exactly. The studies are written about but the levels aren't provided.

Taking enough Vitamin D has also been shown to help prevent conditions such as rheumatoid arthitis and others.

And it's important to take magnesium to balance any calcium.

Finally, a simple and easy way to train yourself to be more stable is to practice standing on one foot. Both with eyes open and eyes closed. Either barefoot or in stable shoes. You really can train yourself to increase the time. Tai chi and chi gong help balance, too. Poses that have you on your feet in yoga, too. Flloor exercises not so much - especially if you can't get up by yourself!

Re: Supplements Do Not Prevent Fractures in Healthy Older Adults

Teddie — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 03:01:51 GMT

@GingerPeach wrote:
@Teddie wrote:
I would be interested in how much those in the study were actually taking. I’m concerned that they were taking too low of an amount, especially the vitamin D, and then conclude it didn’t work. Taking 600 or 1000 is just not enough for the average person.

I completely agree with @Moonchilde that vitamin D is important. In fact, what I am reading and learning is that it is essential. You can not go out in the sun and then your levels are good. There are people who live and work in sunny climates who are deficient.

Exactly. The studies are written about but the levels aren't provided.

Taking enough Vitamin D has also been shown to help prevent conditions such as rheumatoid arthitis and others.

And it's important to take magnesium to balance any calcium.

Finally, a simple and easy way to train yourself to be more stable is to practice standing on one foot. Both with eyes open and eyes closed. Either barefoot or in stable shoes. You really can train yourself to increase the time. Tai chi and chi gong help balance, too. Poses that have you on your feet in yoga, too. Flloor exercises not so much - especially if you can't get up by yourself!

Good point about the magnesium. That is another one most are too low in. We can take higher doses than we used to think, which was half our calcium intake. Now it’s believed that we can take equal amounts, as long as we’re taking the proper kind and our bodies are tolerating it.