topic Re: Over 50 and LTC plans in Wellness

Over 50 and LTC plans

151949 — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 14:11:32 GMT

Another discussion brought up the subject of Long term care plans. Medicare and advantage plans pay very little when someone needs post hospital care such as rehab or skillecd nursing care. To purchase long term care insurance is possible but can be very expensive if you wait until you are a senior to purchase it. Posters have written on this board about having to pay hundreds of dollars a month for it - and they have little coverage. We purchased our policies when we each turned 50 - we bought Met Life thru AARP and we are very pleased with our policies. We each pay $45/month for ours because getting them while we were younger - we paid over the long term. Certainly we hope to never use them, but if we do need them - we have $300,000 a year in coverage.That should more than cover our needs without financially devistating our spouse. The cost of long term care going up & up all the time - I believe this is an insurance that people really need to investigate - and do it while you are younger because it is much cheaper to pay over the long term than to try to get it later.

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

LilacTree — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 14:23:03 GMT

As I have mentioned before, I have LTC, bought into it when my employer offered it to us many years ago. I have to say it is the best decision I ever made because I couldn't do without it now. I have been getting benefits for a long time and they are significant.

My policy allows care in the home by family members and has an "indefinite" term. I hear they are much more expensive and limited currently, that is IF you can even find one these days. The company I am with doesn't even offer it anymore, but I am "grandfathered" in, so I will not lose it.

Well worth the money. One can never know when a debilitating illness can strike.

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

151949 — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 14:29:59 GMT

I have used my LTC policy when I needed in home rehab after ortho surgery so I wasn't using up the limited amount of rehab visits on my health insurance. They paid for the home nurse - the aide who came to assist me to get in the shower , and PT. When I was able to go out to PT I switched over to the one from my health ins.

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

millieshops — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 14:34:05 GMT

In addition to the cost to you of LTC at whatever age, I'd ask potential buyers also to consider what the source of their old-age income will be, what assets they have to protect, and what benefits their retirement state offers.

There is way more to making the decision to buy LTC than just the money you think you need once disaster strikes - especially now that the LTC industry is having so much trouble maintaining premiums close to where they start, be sure to consult a planner who understands your own situation.

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

Abrowneyegirl — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 14:53:28 GMT

What I do not understand about LTC insurance is why start paying in early to 'obtain a reduced rate' but build no cas value? Why not just start later and pay a higher rate closer to the time of need.

By the time my co-worker turns 70 she will have paid 10's of thousands into the insurance and then the premium will increase (but to a rate less than if she had started at 70 yrs old)

Of course the plan does not cover unlimited LTC there are time limits and caps to everything.

If she does not use that insurance what a waste.

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

fluffysmom — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 15:07:38 GMT

I worked in LTC during my career. Typically these are extremely expensive and have very short term coverage. an example would be if you needed skilled services like therapy or IV's but not for long term coverage. Most Dr's and people working in these settings don't have LTC insurance. Definately talk to someone before you purchase such insurance because it may not cover what you think it does.Medicare covers short term skilled services like a hip or knee replacement. I looked at a policy for a Dr. recently. It cost $12,000 a year for a couple and only one spouse could use it at a time. So please have it looked over before buying.

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

LilacTree — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 15:20:06 GMT

@fluffysmom wrote:
I worked in LTC during my career. Typically these are extremely expensive and have very short term coverage. an example would be if you needed skilled services like therapy or IV's but not for long term coverage. Most Dr's and people working in these settings don't have LTC insurance. Definately talk to someone before you purchase such insurance because it may not cover what you think it does.Medicare covers short term skilled services like a hip or knee replacement. I looked at a policy for a Dr. recently. It cost $12,000 a year for a couple and only one spouse could use it at a time. So please have it looked over before buying.

@fluffysmom

Several months ago, out of curiosity, I looked into assisted living facilities through the agency "A Place for Mom." The monthly cost of most of them was in the $5,000 range. I have no assets, only my SS income and the LTC.

Coincidentally, my agent at the LTC company called me yesterday for any updates, etc. He asked if I had any questions and I asked him what my policy would cover for assisted living. The amount he quoted was only $500 more than what I am receiving now. No way I could ever afford assisted living, unless Medicare pays for some of it. I guess if the day comes when I may need it, I'll find that out.

ETA: I just looked it up . . . they don't.

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

151949 — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 15:21:04 GMT

@Abrowneyegirl wrote:
What I do not understand about LTC insurance is why start paying in early to 'obtain a reduced rate' but build no cas value? Why not just start later and pay a higher rate closer to the time of need.
By the time my co-worker turns 70 she will have paid 10's of thousands into the insurance and then the premium will increase (but to a rate less than if she had started at 70 yrs old)
Of course the plan does not cover unlimited LTC there are time limits and caps to everything.
If she does not use that insurance what a waste.

I am 68 years old - to this point I have paid a total of $9700 in premiums to my LTC - this amount could be used up in one month in a skilled care facility if the person needed a lot of care.

Good luck trying to buy LTC insurance when you are old and need it!

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

tansy — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 15:27:53 GMT

It's a gamble. First, you may or may not need it. If you do need it, there's a chance the company has failed. There's a LTC company -- Penn Treaty -- going under right now.

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

151949 — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 15:29:38 GMT

@fluffysmom wrote:
I worked in LTC during my career. Typically these are extremely expensive and have very short term coverage. an example would be if you needed skilled services like therapy or IV's but not for long term coverage. Most Dr's and people working in these settings don't have LTC insurance. Definately talk to someone before you purchase such insurance because it may not cover what you think it does.Medicare covers short term skilled services like a hip or knee replacement. I looked at a policy for a Dr. recently. It cost $12,000 a year for a couple and only one spouse could use it at a time. So please have it looked over before buying.

My DH & I have 2 separate policies - so neither relates to the other, as far as only one getting care. They don't sell you this insurance until you are 50 so we bought them 4 years apart. Of course you'd want to be sure to read the policy and be certain what your getting.Doesn't that apply to everything? We have Met Life - a well known company who has a reputation for great service. They no longer sell this insurance but they grandfathered those who already had it through AARP.

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

software — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 15:29:40 GMT

The only people I know in Assisted Living are wealthy or they have a large family & the family pitched in on the bill every month. Most of the rest of us expect to live in our homes with assistance from family. Or if necessary at the end, a skilled nursing facility.

You can protect your assets in case you need Medicaid. But you have to do it NOW, not when you need it.

Insurance is a gamble. It may not cover everything, or you may not need it at all. There are many variables to consider when planning for old age. And no matter how well we plan, we never know the outcome ahead of time.

Medicare only pays for short term nursing home rehab after a hospital in-patient stay

@LilacTree

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

151949 — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 15:32:19 GMT

@tansy wrote:
It's a gamble. First, you may or may not need it. If you do need it, there's a chance the company has failed. There's a LTC company -- Penn Treaty -- going under right now.

ALL insurance is a gamble. You buy Fire insurance for your home but you certainly hope and pray you'll never need to use it. Of course you need to go through a reputable company. Isn't that just common sense?

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

LilacTree — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 15:34:59 GMT

@software wrote:
The only people I know in Assisted Living are wealthy or they have a large family & the family pitched in on the bill every month. Most of the rest of us expect to live in our homes with assistance from family. Or if necessary at the end, a skilled nursing facility.

You can protect your assets in case you need Medicaid. But you have to do it NOW, not when you need it.

Insurance is a gamble. It may not cover everything, or you may not need it at all. There are many variables to consider when planning for old age. And no matter how well we plan, we never know the outcome ahead of time.

Medicare only pays for short term nursing home rehab after a hospital in-patient stay

@LilacTree

@software

I have no assets except my car which will be paid off by the end of this year, at which time I will sign it over to my daughter. I haven't driven in over five years, so she has been using it anyway.

My sister went to hospice when she was declared terminal. I think Medicare and Medicaid paid for most of it, as she did not have any assets left. She was there six months when she died.

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

FrostyBabe1 — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 15:49:34 GMT

I have a LTC policy that I bought (long before age 50) through my employer. I've continued the policy since I left and while the premiums rose pretty dramatically this year (about 35%), so did the benefits. Given my situation, it's a good choice, but that doesn't mean others need to do the same.

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

noodleann — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 15:55:26 GMT

@tansy wrote:
It's a gamble. First, you may or may not need it. If you do need it, there's a chance the company has failed. There's a LTC company -- Penn Treaty -- going under right now.

Thanks for mentioning this. Anyone interested in this usually expensive coverage should read the NYT article on what's happening with Penn Treaty. This might be especially instructive:

"Now, some fear Penn Treaty’s failure is a signal of more trouble to come in the long-term-care sector.

'“Liquidation is rare, but it does happen in bunches sometimes,” said Robert Hunter, director of insurance for the Consumer Federation of America. The organization has been warning about problems with long-term-care insurance since the early 1990s. In essence, companies underestimated the true cost of coverage and are struggling now to make good on all their promises.

'“There is definitely talk in the street that it’s still a high-risk situation for quite a few companies,” he said. “It’s not a healthy situation.”'

from "Policyholders in Limbo After Rare Failure of Insurer," NYT, 4-1-2017.

It might be wise to do what you can to check out the health of the company underwriting the policy, and know the extent of your state's guarantee policy in the event of failure. It's worth noting that the Penn Treaty customers were compelled to continue paying premiums for nearly a decade despite the distress of the company or face cancellation of their policies.

The article explains why the insurance industry turns a blind eye to their fellow insurers who are in distress--it's because they're the ones who will be funding that guarantee fund if the company fails:

"Health insurers fought the liquidation, too. State guarantee funds, it turns out, are not funded at all. When an insurance company goes under, all the surviving companies in that line of business are required to chip into the guarantor, with assessments based on their market share.

"Long-term-care insurance is classified as health insurance, so health insurers would get the assessment — even the ones that steered clear of long-term-care insurance and never sold a single policy. They were aghast at having to pay for other people’s mistakes."

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

GCR18 — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 16:31:00 GMT

I'm in my fifties and plan to check into it. I'd rather have it and not use it, than to need it and not have it. You can't predict what will happen in the future. I'm a little worried that having cancer two years ago will go against me, but that's why I have to check into it.

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

Abrowneyegirl — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 16:55:32 GMT

@151949 wrote:
@Abrowneyegirl wrote:
What I do not understand about LTC insurance is why start paying in early to 'obtain a reduced rate' but build no cas value? Why not just start later and pay a higher rate closer to the time of need.
By the time my co-worker turns 70 she will have paid 10's of thousands into the insurance and then the premium will increase (but to a rate less than if she had started at 70 yrs old)
Of course the plan does not cover unlimited LTC there are time limits and caps to everything.
If she does not use that insurance what a waste.
I am 68 years old - to this point I have paid a total of $9700 in premiums to my LTC - this amount could be used up in one month in a skilled care facility if the person needed a lot of care.
Good luck trying to buy LTC insurance when you are old and need it!

Thank you for your concern but we will choose to keep our money to invest and not fear the maybe of the 10 million dollar monthly LTC bill that looms out there.

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

Abrowneyegirl — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 17:01:04 GMT

@tansy wrote:
It's a gamble. First, you may or may not need it. If you do need it, there's a chance the company has failed. There's a LTC company -- Penn Treaty -- going under right now.

We BARELY dodged this bullet, my mother was moments away from signing with a company that offered a plan through the hospital she worked at ( a Nationally known and recognized hospital).

A few years ago she ran into an old co-worker who reported that the premiums went up over 70% over the last few years, then the company went under. All that money gone.

Many of these companies have gone under as the costs skyrocket and people live longer.

My mother was so thankful she listened to me!

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

Abrowneyegirl — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 17:06:06 GMT

@software wrote:

You can protect your assets in case you need Medicaid. But you have to do it NOW, not when you need it.

Insurance is a gamble. It may not cover everything, or you may not need it at all. There are many variables to consider when planning for old age. And no matter how well we plan, we never know the outcome ahead of time.

Medicare only pays for short term nursing home rehab after a hospital in-patient stay

@LilacTree

@software

What do you mean by protect your assests? Do you mean Medicaid/Medicare fraud? Why is it our job (the taxpayer) to pay your way?

Our savings and assests are meant to take care of us in our old age (or any age). Do you plan on taking it with you?

Re: Over 50 and LTC plans

ccassaday — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 17:38:21 GMT

@Abrowneyegirl wrote:
@software wrote:

You can protect your assets in case you need Medicaid. But you have to do it NOW, not when you need it.

Insurance is a gamble. It may not cover everything, or you may not need it at all. There are many variables to consider when planning for old age. And no matter how well we plan, we never know the outcome ahead of time.

Medicare only pays for short term nursing home rehab after a hospital in-patient stay

@LilacTree
@software
What do you mean by protect your assests? Do you mean Medicaid/Medicare fraud? Why is it our job (the taxpayer) to pay your way?
Our savings and assests are meant to take care of us in our old age (or any age). Do you plan on taking it with you?

I think the real scary thing is if a spouse has something happen and needs long term care. What if the other spouse has to pay all the SS of the sick spouse to a nursing home. If that sick spouse was the soul money maker the healthy spouse would take a huge income cut because they would have to pay the SS of the sick spouse to a care facility.

In saying that I am not sure I would buy this insurance. It really does depend on your finances and how much money you have invested. I think it is a very personal thing. How much family you have around also would go into this decision.