topic Pex Plumbing in Home

Pex Plumbing

Nightowlz — Sun, 05 Mar 2017 18:05:41 GMT

Does anyone live in a house where Pex Plumbing was installed? They are building some new houses in town that look nice & not as expensive. They have the pex plumbing. I don't know much about it but think it's a disaster waiting to happen. They say you can have it in the attic & it does not have to insulated because it expands/contracts. I would think after doing that winter after winter you would end up with a flooded house eventually? DH wants to look into them but I'm leary. I feel like if we bought one & started having problems with the plumbing you would never be able to sell it & out all that money to buy it.

If it goes to leaking it's not like a pin hole leak you get with copper.

Anyone know much about Pex or anyone that has it or anyone that has had problems?

Re: Pex Plumbing

151949 — Sun, 05 Mar 2017 19:25:17 GMT

Are you talking about plastic pipe? I think that is all they use to build homes these days.I don't think they use old fashioned copper pipes anymore unless maybe if you are custom building you could have it at a high cost - copper isn't cheap anymore.

Re: Pex Plumbing

Mominohio — Sun, 05 Mar 2017 19:46:18 GMT

Just a personal preference here from someone with no real knowledge, but my experience with various plastics and copper...I'll always take the copper.

More costly, but much longer lasting. I base this simply on having homes with both, and preferring good old standby copper.

Never had the actual Pex though.

5Re: Pex Plumbing

Nomorebirthdays — Sun, 05 Mar 2017 19:53:24 GMT

We have and have had no problems, 10 years, all the contractors that we contacted used this when we picking a contractor. This is not new technology.

Re: Pex Plumbing

151949 — Sun, 05 Mar 2017 20:03:19 GMT

Actually, I believe that homes that have the old copper inside probably have lead pipes from the house out to the main - if you have copper pipes you should have your water tested for lead.

Re: Pex Plumbing

151949 — Sun, 05 Mar 2017 20:08:48 GMT

@Nightowlz If you google PEX pipes it says that you have to use the same care with them as you do any other plumbing substance in regard to freezing. They have to be in a heated area and insulated. Why would you put pipes in your attic - I've never heard of doing that. When homes don't have attics the pipes come in thru the ground then up from the foundation. Second story plumbing runs vertically.

Re: Pex Plumbing

Nightowlz — Sun, 05 Mar 2017 20:40:27 GMT

@151949 wrote:
Actually, I believe that homes that have the old copper inside probably have lead pipes from the house out to the main - if you have copper pipes you should have your water tested for lead.

@151949 Our house has copper but the line from the house to the meter is pvc.

They stopped using galvanized in the 60's. If you purchase a house built before1970 it would need to be checked out. Not all houses in the 60's have it.

Re: Pex Plumbing

Nightowlz — Sun, 05 Mar 2017 20:44:24 GMT

@151949 wrote:
@Nightowlz If you google PEX pipes it says that you have to use the same care with them as you do any other plumbing substance in regard to freezing. They have to be in a heated area and insulated. Why would you put pipes in your attic - I've never heard of doing that. When homes don't have attics the pipes come in thru the ground then up from the foundation. Second story plumbing runs vertically.

@151949 That's just what I read not sure where they are putting the plumbing on these homes. They did put plumbing in the attics of all the new homes they built out at the base. The installers did not know it got so cold here in the winter. All those homes pipes burst. Big Mess.

I would never buy a home with the plumbing in the attic, or any part of the central heat/ac or a hot water heater as I have seen. That's all just crazy IMO.

We are on foundation & that's where the plumbing is.

DH says they need to build houses with the plumbing in a central hallway with access for repairs. That would be nice.

Re: 5Re: Pex Plumbing

Nightowlz — Sun, 05 Mar 2017 20:45:42 GMT

@Nomorebirthdays wrote:
We have and have had no problems, 10 years, all the contractors that we contacted used this when we picking a contractor. This is not new technology.

@Nomorebirthdays I know it's not new technology. Just don't think it's been around long enough to know how it's going to last.

Re: Pex Plumbing

Nightowlz — Sun, 05 Mar 2017 20:46:28 GMT

I also read Pex is BPA free but still not know if it leaches anything else.

Re: Pex Plumbing

Tigriss — Sun, 05 Mar 2017 21:00:39 GMT

Pex is the standard now since you can do repair easier, run the plumbing faster, and shut off the water to various parts of the house, while leaving it on in others. It will vary due to the climate of the area around the house, but I imagine the install and mateials have a warranty for a period of time.

Plumbing in a concrete foundation doesn't tend to leak as the concrete seals around the pipe, but it can, though leaks generally occur above the concrete.

Re: Pex Plumbing

gardenman — Sun, 05 Mar 2017 21:06:34 GMT

PEX is cross linked polyethylene and has a great reputation. The good news is there's no scrap value to it so vandals are less likely to break in to steal it. It's a bit pricey to install, but faster and easier to install so the extra cost kind of balances out. It's been used overseas forever and I don't know of any long term negatives to it.

Re: Pex Plumbing

Lilysmom — Sun, 05 Mar 2017 22:18:39 GMT

I recall a discussion with my brother about Pex plumbing. He is a plumber. I would be checking with my insurance company before I took on a place with that installed or before I installed it in my home. I am in Canada. There have been class action lawsuits because of failures with this type of plumbing. My knowledge is not detailed as it was awhile ago but if you google class actions, pex plumbing, you will see the info. LM

Re: Pex Plumbing

151949 — Mon, 06 Mar 2017 04:11:09 GMT

@Nightowlz My experience - I don't know if all plastic pipes are this particular one but we do have plastic pipes.Our house is built on a slab foundation in Florida.Before the foundation was poured they put the plumbing in and brought up the pipes. Then we had to pay a exterminator to come and treat the soil for ground termites before they poured the concrete. They said over time the wiggling of the pipes as the water goes through erodes the concrete around them and termites or ants will invade your home through the cracks.YIKES. So we chose to pay to treat the ground.They warrantied this for 10 years. Some of our neighbors who chose not to do this have had horrors like having ants coming up from the grate while they are showering.We continued with the company that did the spraying and have our house treated for insects. I don't know how anyone can live in Florida and not have an insect service.

Re: Pex Plumbing

gardenman — Mon, 06 Mar 2017 11:35:09 GMT

@Lilysmom wrote:
I recall a discussion with my brother about Pex plumbing. He is a plumber. I would be checking with my insurance company before I took on a place with that installed or before I installed it in my home. I am in Canada. There have been class action lawsuits because of failures with this type of plumbing. My knowledge is not detailed as it was awhile ago but if you google class actions, pex plumbing, you will see the info. LM

I just did a bit of Googling and the problems that some seem to have seem to largely stem from Zurn fittings used with PEX, and improper installation of the PEX. Like with pretty much everything, you need a good installer for PEX and apparently there are a lot of really careless installers out there.

When it comes to leaks, copper isn't leakproof. Christmas morning found me in the basement fixing a leaking copper fitting. In the 58 years I've lived here, I've pretty much replaced 80% of the copper plumbing in the house. We have a well with galvanized pipe for the well, and tiny little pieces of that galvinzed pipe and tiny little pieces of the metal impeller and pump impreller housing will, with wear and tear, come off and enter the water supply, settling along the bottom of the copper tubing. The two types of metal in contact with one another supposedly sets up a galvanic reaction that slowly, but surely eats away at the copper until it can no longer handle the pressure and you've got a leak. Our water chemistry (ph around 6.0) doesn't help matters either.

If I had the money to do so, I'd replace all of my copper with PEX and run a dedicated line from the manifold to each appliance/outlet. The PEX pipe isn't terribly expensive but installing it properly requires some specialized tools that would have to be bought and there would be some trial and error initially, but long term, I suspect it would be better than the copper given our water issues.

Re: Pex Plumbing

Lilysmom — Mon, 06 Mar 2017 20:17:21 GMT

@gardenman, we did comparison on home insurance quotes when we thought our provider was getting high. One of the questions that kept coming up was whether or not we had Pex (we don't.). That prompted the discussion with my brother about the issue.

With all new things, there is a learning period and some unknown. As it becomes more common, I assume some of these issues will become moot. I don't usually like to be the first one to try something brand new, particularly when it comes to my home. Tried and true is my preference. LM

Re: Pex Plumbing

Nightowlz — Mon, 06 Mar 2017 20:21:46 GMT

@gardenman wrote:
@Lilysmom wrote:
I recall a discussion with my brother about Pex plumbing. He is a plumber. I would be checking with my insurance company before I took on a place with that installed or before I installed it in my home. I am in Canada. There have been class action lawsuits because of failures with this type of plumbing. My knowledge is not detailed as it was awhile ago but if you google class actions, pex plumbing, you will see the info. LM

I just did a bit of Googling and the problems that some seem to have seem to largely stem from Zurn fittings used with PEX, and improper installation of the PEX. Like with pretty much everything, you need a good installer for PEX and apparently there are a lot of really careless installers out there.

When it comes to leaks, copper isn't leakproof. Christmas morning found me in the basement fixing a leaking copper fitting. In the 58 years I've lived here, I've pretty much replaced 80% of the copper plumbing in the house. We have a well with galvanized pipe for the well, and tiny little pieces of that galvinzed pipe and tiny little pieces of the metal impeller and pump impreller housing will, with wear and tear, come off and enter the water supply, settling along the bottom of the copper tubing. The two types of metal in contact with one another supposedly sets up a galvanic reaction that slowly, but surely eats away at the copper until it can no longer handle the pressure and you've got a leak. Our water chemistry (ph around 6.0) doesn't help matters either.

If I had the money to do so, I'd replace all of my copper with PEX and run a dedicated line from the manifold to each appliance/outlet. The PEX pipe isn't terribly expensive but installing it properly requires some specialized tools that would have to be bought and there would be some trial and error initially, but long term, I suspect it would be better than the copper given our water issues.

@gardenman Thx for your replies. I'm still leary since I have read this online. With the sudden increase in the use of PEX in recent years, failures in PEX plumbing systems have been observed. Failures can be linked to two areas; the pipe and the fitting. The pipe can fail when exposed to chlorine within the water, or over exposure to sunlight before installation. In addition, PEX pipe has also been found to be permeable when exposed to some solutions, including oxygen and some petroleum products, and can leach toxic chemicals from the pipe material. As far as the fitting, the leading cause of failure in a brass fitting used with PEX is caused by dezincification. This causes the fitting to corrode and eventually create leaks.

We have had 3 leaks since living here in the copper. Each time I heard it. DH & the plumber don't know how I could hear it but I did. Now our water meter has a pic of a faucet on it & it it's dripping you have a leak.

Re: Pex Plumbing

Lilysmom — Mon, 06 Mar 2017 20:24:49 GMT

@151949 wrote:
@Nightowlz My experience - I don't know if all plastic pipes are this particular one but we do have plastic pipes.Our house is built on a slab foundation in Florida.Before the foundation was poured they put the plumbing in and brought up the pipes. Then we had to pay a exterminator to come and treat the soil for ground termites before they poured the concrete. They said over time the wiggling of the pipes as the water goes through erodes the concrete around them and termites or ants will invade your home through the cracks.YIKES. So we chose to pay to treat the ground.They warrantied this for 10 years. Some of our neighbors who chose not to do this have had horrors like having ants coming up from the grate while they are showering.We continued with the company that did the spraying and have our house treated for insects. I don't know how anyone can live in Florida and not have an insect service.

Wow!

Re: Pex Plumbing

gardenman — Mon, 06 Mar 2017 22:18:27 GMT

It's kind of interesting how the assembly of Pex has evolved. When I first saw it being used they used an expander that would stretch the pex to allow it to slip over a fitting, then the pex would supposedly shrink and lock onto the fitting. Now there's more of a slip fitting and a metal band that's crimped onto the pipe/fitting to lock everything together. I'm guessing the earlier method of securing pex and fittings wasn't ideal. The crimp method looks pretty secure, but it's interesting that they've changed the way it's installed. I wasn't aware that the installation methods had changed, but I don't use pex as of yet.

Re: Pex Plumbing

Nomorebirthdays — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 00:18:44 GMT

@Nightowlz. We have a cellar, and a well so no chemicals added. The pipes from the well to the house are not pex. It is not exposed to outside elements or cement. The drain pipes are pvc.the pex lines all come from a central manifold, so each sink, tub, toliet has thier own tube. The manifold serves to turn of each line a will, the only thing we have to do is turn off the outside hose bibs in the winter. Takes about 5 sec. Very simple, I think I could install it if I had to. Red for hot, blue for cold. Like I said we have had no problems.

Invented in 1960s.