topic Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!! in Beauty

PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

cmoose — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:06:28 GMT

I was very interested in the 6oz size of PTR retinol and read all the reviews- everyone was talking about how watery it was- but that was only true on the QVC reviews. Sephora reviews didn't mention that at all. I took a look at the ingredient deck and indeed they are different.

Here is the deck from QVC's product:

Cyclopentasiloxane, Squalane, Water/Aqua/Eau, Retinol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Ascorbyl
Palmitate, Bisabolol, Lecithin, Potassium Phosphate, Pentylene Glycol, Polysorbate-20, Alcohol.

And here is the deck from Sephora:

Cyclopentasiloxane, Squalane, Retinol, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Tocopherol, Water (Aqua), Pentylene Glycol, Polysorbate 20, Lechitin, Bisabolol, Alcohol.

While the indgredients are almost the same, water is the third ingredient in the QVC product and the 6th on the Sephora - What gives QVC??? I'm guessing that won't be mentioned in any of the presentations.

Not cool.

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

Kachina624 — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:23:46 GMT

I'm guessing it's been watered down.

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

Dazlin — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:25:01 GMT

Terrible...I think qvc should be aware of this. I'll say, I have purchased a duo of an enriched night cream PTR from qvc, and gave it away...did absolutely nothing. $100. I never thought to compare ingredients. Anyway, I didn't like his retinol, and many other products, just did nothing. I will say, I like and use the glycolic cleanser, and the pumpkin mask was good too. I now use Andulau pumpkin mask, and it's just as good, at a much better price. I've moved onto Consult beaute Regenerol line, a few other products from them....verrrrry nice results. Nothing beats Shisedo eye cream, and skin softener. Thanks for your post!!

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

winamac1 — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:42:47 GMT

@cmoose wrote:
I was very interested in the 6oz size of PTR retinol and read all the reviews- everyone was talking about how watery it was- but that was only true on the QVC reviews. Sephora reviews didn't mention that at all. I took a look at the ingredient deck and indeed they are different.

Here is the deck from QVC's product:

Cyclopentasiloxane, Squalane, Water/Aqua/Eau, Retinol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Ascorbyl
Palmitate, Bisabolol, Lecithin, Potassium Phosphate, Pentylene Glycol, Polysorbate-20, Alcohol.

And here is the deck from Sephora:

Cyclopentasiloxane, Squalane, Retinol, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Tocopherol, Water (Aqua), Pentylene Glycol, Polysorbate 20, Lechitin, Bisabolol, Alcohol.

While the indgredients are almost the same, water is the third ingredient in the QVC product and the 6th on the Sephora - What gives QVC??? I'm guessing that won't be mentioned in any of the presentations.

Not cool.

Thanks for the heads'up!

I didn't know this!!

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

Since92 — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:55:46 GMT

Thank you for the information!! I had heard of these practices in years past but regrettably, I've gotten very slack on researching deals "too good to be true".

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

Stevie Nix — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:58:19 GMT

I don't use his products, but I find this post very interesting. Is this how QVC offers their "special" prices? I wonder if this occurs on other beauty products.

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

NicksmomESQ — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:59:39 GMT

Thanks for the heads up.Now I get why it didn't do anything for me.I also wondered why the consistency felt like water.That's because it was water!!!

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

SilleeMee — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 00:03:59 GMT

I think this issue has been brought up in the past on this BB. That's how I found out about it.

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

classic — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 00:11:46 GMT

I'm not surprised; especially when they are selling in large quantitie, the product will be watered down..

I'll give you an example; years ago I had a BJ card; well I saw a three pack Lysol, goose neck toilet bowl cleaner at a phenomenal price; so I purchased it.. Upon using it; it was sooo watered down, not thick & clinging to the bowl like the bottles you purchased at the supermarket.. Of course, I called BJ & also the number listed for the company on the back of the product & I gave the money a piece of my mind big time.... Even at these wholesale clubs you have to watch..

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

SeaMaiden — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 00:26:20 GMT

@cmoose Please email him about your findings and see what they say.

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

grandma petes — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 00:40:50 GMT

I think it's awful when people are mislead or duped by things like this. When these cosmetic companies have customers that are as loyal as many here at QVC and they sell watered down or dumbed down versions of their products, knowing full well they are not the same quality/strength/formula as they sell other places....that is shameful. I hope QVC wasn't aware of this and if they were/are and continue to market it without informing customers....well, shame on QVC.

That's as bad as the $65.00 cake being sold here and marketed as "all natural" ingredients and they use Pillsbury Cake Mixes!!! What???!!!

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

Quse — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 01:08:38 GMT

@cmoose wrote:
I was very interested in the 6oz size of PTR retinol and read all the reviews- everyone was talking about how watery it was- but that was only true on the QVC reviews. Sephora reviews didn't mention that at all. I took a look at the ingredient deck and indeed they are different.

Here is the deck from QVC's product:

Cyclopentasiloxane, Squalane, Water/Aqua/Eau, Retinol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Ascorbyl
Palmitate, Bisabolol, Lecithin, Potassium Phosphate, Pentylene Glycol, Polysorbate-20, Alcohol.

And here is the deck from Sephora:

Cyclopentasiloxane, Squalane, Retinol, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Tocopherol, Water (Aqua), Pentylene Glycol, Polysorbate 20, Lechitin, Bisabolol, Alcohol.

While the indgredients are almost the same, water is the third ingredient in the QVC product and the 6th on the Sephora - What gives QVC??? I'm guessing that won't be mentioned in any of the presentations.

Not cool.

@cmoose Yes, not cool.

Maybe one formula is older than the other and he will be switching all to the newer formula? Just a thought...

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

jackthebear — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 01:28:40 GMT

@cmoose wrote:
I was very interested in the 6oz size of PTR retinol and read all the reviews- everyone was talking about how watery it was- but that was only true on the QVC reviews. Sephora reviews didn't mention that at all. I took a look at the ingredient deck and indeed they are different.

Here is the deck from QVC's product:

Cyclopentasiloxane, Squalane, Water/Aqua/Eau, Retinol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Ascorbyl
Palmitate, Bisabolol, Lecithin, Potassium Phosphate, Pentylene Glycol, Polysorbate-20, Alcohol.

And here is the deck from Sephora:

Cyclopentasiloxane, Squalane, Retinol, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Tocopherol, Water (Aqua), Pentylene Glycol, Polysorbate 20, Lechitin, Bisabolol, Alcohol.

While the indgredients are almost the same, water is the third ingredient in the QVC product and the 6th on the Sephora - What gives QVC??? I'm guessing that won't be mentioned in any of the presentations.

Not cool.

Please address this on his Facebook page and report on the answer

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

noodleann — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 02:36:15 GMT

Just for kicks, I pulled one product to do a similar comparison, the QVC deck to the manufacturer's site. In this case, Paula's Choice Clinical 1% Retinol Treatment, A276148 on QVC, 1 oz in the blue pump container, $50 QVC price. Same container, same amount, same label on PC site, $56.

They're identical through item #12. The next item, #13, in the QVC list is Retinol, but it's #17 in the PC list.

AFAIC, these are not only not identical products, they're not the same product.

The deck from the PC site:

Water (Aqua)
Dimethicone (skin-softening)
Glycerin (skin-replenishing)
Butylene Glycol (hydrating)
Isononyl Isononanoate (emollient)
Castor Isostearate Succinate (skin-softening )
Glyceryl Stearate (texture enhancer)
C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate (emollient)
Dimethicone Crosspolymer (texture enhancer)
PEG-33 (stabilizer)
Polysorbate 20 (texture enhancer)
Behenyl Alcohol (texture enhancer)

PEG-100 Stearate (texture enhancer)

Pentaerythrityl Tetraisostearate (stabilizer)

Polymethylsilsesquioxane (texture enhancer)

Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate (vitamin C/antioxidant)

Retinol (skin-restoring)

Ceramide NG (skin-replenishing)

Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-7 (skin-restoring)

Palmitoyl Hexapeptide-12 (skin-restoring)

Sodium Hyaluronate (skin-replenishing )

Dipotassium Glycyrrhizate (antioxidant plant extracts/skin-soothing)

Glycyrrhiza Glabra Root Extract (licorice extract/antioxidant/skin-soothing)

Avena Sativa Kernel Extract (oat extract/antioxidant/skin-soothing)

Arctium Lappa Root Extract (burdock extract/antioxidant/skin-soothing)

Salix Alba Bark Extract (willow bark extract/antioxidant/skin-soothing)

Glycine Soja Sterols (antioxidant/skin-softening )

Lecithin (skin-restoring)

Allantoin (skin-soothing)

Tocopheryl Acetate (vitamin E/antioxidant)

Hydrolyzed Soy Protein (antioxidant/skin-softening)

Sorbitan Laurate (texture enhancer)

Acetyl Dipeptide-1 Cetyl Ester (skin-soothing)

Disodium EDTA (stabilizer)

Hydroxyethylcellulose (texture enhancer)

Palmitoyl Tripeptide-1 (skin-restoring)

Sodium Hydroxide (pH adjuster)

Tribehenin (emollient)

Caprylyl Glycol (skin-softening)

Ethylhexylglycerin (skin-softening)

Pentylene Glycol (hydrating)

PEG-75 Shea Butter Glycerides (emollient)

PPG-12/SMDI Copolymer (stabilizer)

PEG-10 Phytosterol (fatty acid-based emollient)

PEG-8 Dimethicone (skin-softening)

PEG-14 (texture enhancer)

Magnesium Aluminum Silicate (texture enhancer)

Arachidyl Glucoside (texture enhancer)

Arachidyl Alcohol (texture enhancer)

Sclerotium Gum (texture enhancer)

Carbomer (gel-based texture enhancer)

Phenoxyethanol (preservative)

Benzoic Acid (preservative).

From the QVC A276148:

Water
Dimethicone
Glycerin
Butylene Glycol
Isononyl Isononanoate
Castor Isostearate Succinate
Glyceryl Stearate
C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate
Dimethicone Crosspolymer
PEG-33
Polysorbate 20
Behenyl Alcohol

Retinol

Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate

Ceramide 2

Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-7

Palmitoyl Hexapeptide-12

Palmitoyl

Tripeptide-1

Sodium Hyaluronate

Dipotassium Glycyrrhizate

Glycyrrhiza Glabra

(Licorice) Root Extract

Avena Sativa (Oat) Kernel Extract

Arctium Lappa (Burdock)

Root Extract

Salix Alba (Willow) Bark Extract

Glycine Soja (Soybean) Sterols

Lecithin

Allantoin

Tocopheryl Acetate

Hydrolyzed Soy Protein

Sorbitan Laurate

Acetyl Dipeptide-1 Cetyl Ester

Disodium EDTA

Hydroxyethylcellulose

Sodium Hydroxide

Tribehenin

Caprylyl Glycol

Ethylhexylglycerin

Pentylene Glycol

PEG-100 Stearate

PEG-75 Shea Butter Glycerides

PPG-12/SMDI Copolymer

PEG-10 Phytosterol

PEG-8 Dimethicone

PEG-14

Pentaerythrityl Tetraisostearate

Polymethylsilsesquioxane

Magnesium Aluminum Silicate

Arachidyl Glucoside

Sclerotium Gum

Arachidyl Alcohol

Benzoic Acid

Carbomer

Phenoxyethanol

WHAT'S GOING ON? I'm thinking we shouold do this for ALL OF THE beauty products sold here--more PTR, Perricone, philosophy, Denese--any line with pricy skin treatment products.

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

asher17 — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 04:05:07 GMT

I'm seriously rethinking ever purchasing another beauty product period from QVC after reading this. I have spent a lot of money on beauty at QVC, however lesson learned to research everything now.

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

HappyDaze — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 04:09:53 GMT

Interesting! I don't really find QVC a good value on my beauty products anyway so rarely do I buy my products from QVC over the brand's website or other beauty site. Now I will certainly check out the ingredients first if they ever have a screaming deal I can't get elsewhere. I thought I read that the Beekman products (some of them, anyway) were different on Evine versus their own website. I never double checked that to see if it were true but if it is, sounds like Evine might be doing this as well. However, the shipping on Beekman's website is so outrageous, I doubt I would be swayed to buy directly from their site vs. Evine unless the website's products were significantly superior than those on Evines.

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

mimi5775 — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 04:24:32 GMT

@NicksmomESQ wrote:
Thanks for the heads up.Now I get why it didn't do anything for me.I also wondered why the consistency felt like water.That's because it was water!!!

I was wondering if a vendor for QVC specifically has their own plant/factory whatever and manufactures an item differently than the real deal such as Sephora or in another store?

It was always like water in my opinion maybe that was why it was the ONLY retinol in my life I could tolerate ...hate to say it for people who are upset and lost money on it lol but true...it was like using water.

I am no longer a big fan of PTR's.

I have moved onto diff peel pads and they work better clearing my pores.

He's not a Dr., reads the info card for certain things a product does! Okay .. some do this but it's basic things I know from seeing shows.

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!e

Porcelain — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 04:55:03 GMT

Regarding the Paula's Choice ingredient decks, there is no scandal. The forumulas are the same. The ingredient lists are virtually identical. Just in different order. That's totally okay in the skincare world.

All ingredients above 1 percent have to be listed in order of weight or percentage. All ingredients at or below 1 percent can be listed in any order the manufacturer or distributor (aka QVC in this instance) wants. So sometimes they arrange them to sound better. This is not cool with us consumers because we read the end of that giant list and think it is all in order of largest to smallest. It isn't, necessarily.

Since we know the retinol is in there at 1%, we know everything after it can be assumed to be less than that and can be put in any old order. Plus, a few ingredients in front of it on the list may be in the 1% and below list as well.

It looks like QVC put the desirable ingredients higher up and pushed all the chemically sounding ingredients to the end.

I pasted both lists into an Excel spreadsheet side by side and then sorted both alphabetically. As I said, virtually identical.

* My source for this info is BeautyBrains, Chemists Corner, and my intro to cosmetics formulation text book I just got and have been devouring.

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

Porcelain — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 06:10:58 GMT

Regarding the Peter Thomas Roth formulas. Those lists are pretty much the same too. The only difference, when I spreadsheet it, is that one lists Potassium Phosphate and the other doesn't. Not sure why they would add it to one and not the other, but I'm sure there isn't much of it.

This forumula is mostly Cyclopentasiloxane and Squalane. Looks like everything else (even the water, which is kind of unusual) is likely 1% or less. Very siliconey. That might be why people say it feels watery. All the ingredients at 1% or less can be listed any way the manufacturer or distributor wants.

Edited to Add:

Here is the applicable FDA labeling regulation:

"The ingredients must be listed in descending order of predominance. However, there are a few exceptions to this requirement.

...

2. Ingredients present at a concentration not exceeding 1% may be listed in any order after the listing of the ingredients present at more than 1% in descending order of predominance. [§ 701.3(f)(2)"

This is how companies "fairy dust" these days. They know we know about predominance order, but (I think) they hope we don't know about the 1% loophole.

I suspect QVC or Sephora made a mistake in using that loophole to rearrange the low percentage ingredients. I bet nobody considered how bad it would look if anyone compared lists. And how embarassing it would be to try to explain how and why it was legit to do!

Re: PETER THOMAS ROTH TSV- buyer beware!!

Kachina624 — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 05:32:48 GMT

When a company cheats like this and it's discover by eagle-eyed consumers, it puts their credibility in question for all their products. Makes you wonder what's wrong with their clothing, are their small appliances wired correctly so they can be trusted not to burn the house down (I had a close call with one) is their prepared food made under sanitary conditions? It goes on and on. We want to trust them but this kind of cheap deception makes it difficult.