topic Re: Animal testing in Beauty

Animal testing

Nikalette — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:21:40 GMT

There was a question on the TSV by PTR on whether it is cruelty free. I did some research and found this site. I was so shocked and saddened to see how many products I have purchased are tested on animals. Also, any cosmetic product made in China that is imported is required to be tested by animals. Some QVC vendors, like Laura Geller, are cruelty free. http://www.paulaschoice.com/beautypedia-product-reviews/animal-testing/ Oh, and PTR does test on animals.

Re: Animal testing

HappyDaze — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:29:24 GMT

well, what you said is actually not accurate. I think you are confusing two different things in your statement "Also, any cosmetic product made in China that is imported is required to be tested by animals." It is that some products being sold in China may be required to show animal testing before they are allowed to be sold in China. So products made outside of China that want to be brought into China MAY be required to test on animals.

There have been some companies that are being sold in China, like Dr. Perricone and another company (can't remember who it is now?? Isomers maybe??), have been able to show the safety of their products using other methods that were acceptable to the Chinese govt. so although they sell in China, they did not have to test on animals.

So we can no longer make the general statement that if they sell in China, they MUST test on animals- you will have to email each company you are concerned about and ask them directly.

Re: Animal testing

wingnut — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:37:03 GMT

I checked with Isomers - they do not test on animals!

Re: Animal testing

Danishgal — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:40:56 GMT

You might want to check again. Last I heard, Isomers sells their products in China.

Re: Animal testing

HappyDaze — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:43:10 GMT

On 6/16/2014 Danish Gal said:
You might want to check again. Last I heard, Isomers sells their products in China.

yes but please read what I posted- there are SOME companies that sell in China but have been able to prove their safety using other methods that were acceptable to China so they are not required to test. And yes, Isomers was one of them so they do NOT test on animals.

That is why I said we can no longer just write off a company that sells to China- you need to contact them directly to see if they were able to circumvent the animal testing. China is getting a little less stringent about the animal testing, fortunately.

Re: Animal testing

Nightowlz — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:45:58 GMT

On 6/16/2014 Danish Gal said:
You might want to check again. Last I heard, Isomers sells their products in China.

This has already been discussed on the boards. No Isomers does not test on animals.

Re: Animal testing

Danishgal — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:49:23 GMT

Really? Then how can they sell in China? Any possible chance of animal testing companies should be discussed on the board, IMO, and whenever the subject comes up. What makes Isomers so special? They are doing the same thing that PTR is accused of. There isn't a skin care product or company that I am willing to support that even may remotely test on animals. Until China irradicates their policy completely, I won't purchase. I have not seen a definitive statement that eases my mind on animal testing in China. Is it possible then when a product produces some results that people are less critcial of them regarding selling in China?

Re: Animal testing

HappyDaze — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:56:15 GMT

On 6/16/2014 Danish Gal said:
Really? Then how can they sell in China? Any possible chance of animal testing companies should be discussed on the board, IMO, and whenever the subject comes up. What makes Isomers so special? They are doing the same thing that PTR is accused of. There isn't a skin care product or company that I am willing to support that even may remotely test on animals. Until China irradicates their policy completely, I won't purchase. I have not seen a definitive statement that eases my mind on animal testing in China. Is it possible then when a product produces some results that people are less critcial of them regarding selling in China?

you really need to educate yourself and go look up the Chinese animal testing policy and see the new updated information. It isn't speculation, it is fact. It is misinformation like what you present here that really isn't fair to companies that are doing the right things.

I also find your last sentence insulting for those of us that are committed to buying cruelty-free. If there is ever any doubt, I pass on that line or product and would never ever give someone a pass because I like their products. I've had to give up 95% of my HG products once I went cruelty free and some I have not even been able to replace with anything as good but I would never go back regardless because I am not that vain to give up my morals for some beauty products.

ETA: and for the record, I do not use currently use Perricone, Isomers or PTR products nor have I in the past so I have no loyalty nor feeling one way or another to any of these lines.

Re: Animal testing

Danishgal — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:59:06 GMT

Happydaze, it was question. Wow, you are really on the defensive. And yes, I have read the Chinese policy and what I am saying is that what is stated doesn't ease MY mind.

Re: Animal testing

HappyDaze — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 18:01:05 GMT

Not defensive at all, I just think I now understand why some people who aren't concerned about animal testing often think those that are are almost militant in their beliefs, regardless of what the actual facts are.

It really isn't fair to those companies that are doing the right thing to be flagged and called out as not cruelty free when they are.

Re: Animal testing

Happy Elizabeth — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 18:02:39 GMT

Yes, Peter a Thomas Roth definitely tests on animals. My mother sent the company countless emails inquiring about their policies, and they never got back to her. She will no longer use PTR.

Re: Animal testing

Danishgal — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 18:07:56 GMT

Happydaze, animal testing on imported products has not been stopped in China from what I read. The first step that is taking place is stopping animal testing on domestically (China) made non specialty products. Progress is happening, but has not halted yet, I believe.

Re: Animal testing

HappyDaze — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 18:09:41 GMT

Danish, we will just simply have to agree to disagree. I do not want to go back and forth on it. I never said animal testing was stopped completely in China. I don't know where you got that from my posts but I never said it. But let's just agree to disagree at this point.

Re: Animal testing

BarkLessWagMore — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 18:11:29 GMT

It is very difficult to keep track of who tests and who doesn't, what with all of the buyouts that continually happen and their vague marketing ploys to deflect the truth. I appreciate those who take the time to do the research and ask questions and post their findings on the boards. Thank you for that. Animal testing is unnecessary and cruel and our food system is just as horrific. My daughter is vegan and I do not want to ever accidentally purchase her a gift that will upset her. So thanks for posting. I had no idea Smashbox was owned by Estee Lauder until today. There's another beloved brand scratched off the list.

Re: Animal testing

Danishgal — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 18:16:43 GMT

I don't want anyone to be mislead either, Happydaze. Usually, you and I have same opinions. At least we agree that animal testing is horrible and should be stopped.

Re: Animal testing

HappyDaze — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 18:30:44 GMT

On 6/16/2014 Danish Gal said:
I don't want anyone to be mislead either, Happydaze. Usually, you and I have same opinions. At least we agree that animal testing is horrible and should be stopped.

The only difference between you and I on this subject is that there are some companies that have proven their efficacy to China using non-animal testing means. They are far and few between because animal testing is, unfortunately, cheaper than non-animal testing means. So, very few companies are willing to spend the extra money to go the non-animal testing route to abide by the Chinese government regulations. Isn't that sad? Those companies just hope their customers will "forgive" them for those "rare" times they test because hey, they don't test otherwise.

Or still others, like Urban Decay, simply sell out to a parent company that does test so they can still "claim" they are cruelty-free but yet are still benefiting from their parent companies animal testing (they share the testing results/information). Slight of hand.

Companies, imo, are often being as convoluted as possible to make it hard for us consumers to make educated choices. And the more educated and aware consumers get, the more "sneaky" the companies get. That is why I appreciate those companies that are transparent- any company that doesn't answer their emails or avoids answering questions for as long as they can (yeah, looking at you IT cosmetics ) or that answer the email with a round-about, non-answer are not trustworthy, imo.

Re: Animal testing

Nightowlz — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 18:38:45 GMT

Here is a link to the previous discussion about Isomers & animal testing. I have to take it from what is posted that Isomers does not test on animals. Yes I use Isomers & will continue to do so. http://community.qvc.com/forums/beauty-banter/topic/427745/does-isomers-do-animal-testing.aspx

Re: Animal testing

MalteseMomma — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 18:48:49 GMT

PTR does test on animals and many of the brands QVC sells do Many of the companies that bought out the products we once loved ,test on animals and because they sell their products in China or import ingredients from China that means they test on animals.

They lie and say they do not because they tthink we are dumb and do not know what happens in China

I am very careful what I buy. I will not sacrifice an animal for my pleasure ever.

Yes I am vegan,totally!

Don't fall for those dumb excuses those companies make to confuse you.

Re: Animal testing

JeanLouiseFinch — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 19:11:54 GMT

From the IT Cosmetics website:

"Does It Cosmetics test on animals?

We have never and will never test any of our products on animals. We care certified by PETA as a Cruelty Free Company."

Can companies post the "Cruelty Free Bunny" on their websites without be certified as such?

Re: Animal testing

HappyDaze — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 19:14:38 GMT

On 6/16/2014 JeanLouiseFinch said:
From the IT Cosmetics website:
Does It Cosmetics test on animals?
We have never and will never test any of our products on animals. We care certified by PETA as a Cruelty Free Company.

I don't know if you are directing this at me since I mentioned IT cosmetics but I was referring to their avoidance of my questions regarding the source (animal or plant) of several of their ingredients. Since they do use some animal derived ingredients, I now know why they avoided my question as long as they could. I have a hard time trusting companies that give me the run around.

To me, I don't believe any line is "cruelty free" if they kill animals to source their ingredients. Unfortunately, the accepted definition of "cruelty free" does not take into consideration killing of animals for ingredients so many are mislead to think "cruelty free" means no animals were harmed during the making of said product, but that is simply not true.