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Re: For those interested in the processo

This country WAS founded on the general welfare, just not general assistance. I suggest people memorize the Preamble to the Constitution, my 8th graders have to-lays down what the Constitution's vision is and was.

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Re: For those interested in the processo


@maestra wrote:

This country WAS founded on the general welfare, just not general assistance. I suggest people memorize the Preamble to the Constitution, my 8th graders have to-lays down what the Constitution's vision is and was.


Elllis Island is a real reminder that access to this country wasn't always easy.  If you couldn't support yourself, didn't have a sponsor or were sick, back you went on the boat you arrived on.  

 

The Boston Bombers are also a reminder that our system isn't working properly.

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Re: For those interested in the process


@Bhvbum wrote:

What also gets lost in the hysteria, are all the people who arrive every day via international flights. I guarantee THEY don't go through this process and many never return back home. 


It really isn't lost, it's just difficult because we don't watch passports the way other countries do.  We've already caught a bunch of Syrians at the southern border, known terrorists were caught a few months ago but were released on order from the WH.  There were also three "students" here on a visa that were caught at a reservoir at 12:30 in the morning.  Again, higher ups ordered them to be released.  

 

 

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Re: For those interested in the process


@Mominohio wrote:

@mstyrion 1 wrote:

@orangegarnet wrote:

We have tons of homeless VETS that can't get help, the poor guys on the streets don't have benefits ... they should come first, afterall they served and gave for our country!!! 


______________________________________________________

Their benefits have not been taken away. They are there but just not being used. They have VA benefits, SS, Medicare etc. just like every other citizen.  The problem is getting them the help they are entitled to.  A very different problem which has nothing whatsoever to do with new immigrants into this country.


Has everything to do with new immigrants. New immigrants cost us billions. There is only so much money and services to go around, and every immigrant (legal or otherwise, refugee or not) takes up money that people who served in the military, or worked and paid taxes, and need services doesn't get. We are not a bottomless pot of money and resources, but the world (and many of our own citizens who don't contribute) think we are.


From this website:http://www.vox.com/2015/9/9/9290985/refugee-crisis-europe-syrian
What's the Difference Between Refugees and Migrants?

Not everyone who is crossing the Mediterranean or otherwise showing up at a European or American border is a refugee; many are migrants coming for other reasons. That gets to the distinction between refugees and migrants.

Refugees are people who have been forced out of their home country against their will. The word "migrant" can mean someone who moves to a foreign country voluntarily, or it can be used as a broader umbrella term that includes refugees as well as voluntary migrants. For example, a Syrian man fleeing war is a refugee, whereas a Cameroonian man seeking economic opportunity is a migrant.

Whether someone is considered a refugee or a migrant effects what sorts of legal rights they have: Refugees can apply for asylum and are protected by international and domestic law, for example, while economic migrants cannot. There is no such thing as an "illegal asylum-seeker" — refugees can seek asylum in another country without obtaining a visa or resettlement authorization first. Economic migrants, by contrast, are usually required to have a visa or other form of work authorization in order to immigrate legally.

There is also a meaningful symbolic distinction between the words, one that often becomes political. Calling a group of people "refugees" can be a way of describing them as legitimately deserving of shelter and care, whereas calling them "migrants" can be a way of accusing them of arriving for economic reasons, and perhaps even lying about their asylum claims. This is why anti-immigration politicians will sometimes insist that a group of refugees are actually migrants who have come to exploit Western entitlement programs. And it is why, in this article and many others on Vox, you will see us use the word refugee rather than migrant when we are referring to people fleeing persecution.

But this distinction, for all its legal salience, is actually quite blurry — and it can also imply, wrongly, that non-refugee migrants should be rejected, that only refugees deserve their rights. Jørgen Carling, a scholar at the Peace Research Institute Oslo, put this well:

The ‘two kinds of people’ argument is further undermined by the drawn-out trajectories of many current migrants. A Nigerian arriving in Italy might have left Nigeria for reasons other than a fear of persecution, but ended up fleeing extreme danger in Libya. Conversely, a Syrian might have crossed into Jordan and found safety from the war, but been prompted by the bleak prospects of indeterminate camp life to make the onward journey to Europe. Regardless of the legal status that each one obtains in Europe, they are both migrants who have made difficult decisions, who deserve our compassion, and whose rights need to be ensured.

Drew Hinshaw, a West Africa–based reporter for the Wall Street Journal, elaborated on Twitter. "In many places I cover, asymmetrical war makes it hard to tell where war/poverty end/begin," he wrote, citing as an example parts of Nigeria where low-level violence and bleak economic opportunities, combined, lead families to decide to try for a better life in Europe.

In such cases, of which there are a great many, the distinction between migrants and refugees — and the implied value of judgment of who does and does not "deserve" to seek a better life abroad — falls apart.



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Re: For those interested in the process


@rosie03 wrote:

Who supports them once they are here?


We do.  There's actually a government program paying for ads in Mexico to tell them how to get benefits in America once they cross the border.  No joke, the program costs millions each year.

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Re: For those interested in the process


@blahblahvampemerblah wrote:

@rosie03 wrote:

Who supports them once they are here?


We do.  There's actually a government program paying for ads in Mexico to tell them how to get benefits in America once they cross the border.  No joke, the program costs millions each year.


Mexicans make up about half of all unauthorized immigrants (49%), though their numbers have been declining in recent years. There were 5.6 million Mexican unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. in 2014, down from 6.4 million in 2009, according to preliminary Pew Research Center estimates.

 

Source: 2014 http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

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Re: For those interested in the processo


@biancardi wrote:

@Mominohio wrote:

@biancardi wrote:

 

@Jackaranda wrote:

@sunshine45 wrote:

@Jackaranda wrote:

Real quick, I have that pesky question of who is going to pay for these vaccinations,doctor visits, housing,school supplies for the children, cell phones,prescriptions, etc.?I mean they won!tbhave jobs yet when they land here, oh wait I just figured it out , the taxpayers. I will tell hubby to work some overtime.


 

 

 

as a human being we all have responsibility to care for other human beings.....no matter where they are from.....being "tapped out" is not an excuse in my opinion.


And that is why our deficit is so large. Our counties can take in their share. We have already done our share in history.  



Well, that isn't true.  Other countries (and they are truly impoverished countries) are taking in a lot more than we are.  And no, we haven't done our share in history.   I didn't know that humanitarian aid and compassion had a ceiling.

 

Our deficit is so large because we keep cutting taxes and starting wars - without paying for them.  We paid for our wars pre Vietnam and since then, we don't.    If we are going to have services (which we need, unless we want to be a 3rd world country), we have to stop cutting taxes.  We have the lowest rates in decades and this is why this country is in trouble.

 

 


Perhaps some wish to pay more taxes, I don't. The more you tax people, the less they are willing to GIVE. 

 

This nation was not founded to take from those here to redistrubute it within or outside our borders. The refugee issue needs to be more a privately funded affair, with less tax money spent on it. 

 

If we are such a blessed and rich nation (and we are) there will be many step up to (help) pay for this through the private sector.


 

give to what?  To churches?  how does that help the nation as a whole?   It doesn't.  And no, the more you tax people has nothing to do with private donations.  Our country had taxed the wealthy quite a bit after WWII to PAY for our wars, and guess what happened?

 

yeah - our economy boomed.  The wealthy decided instead of hording their money as they would be taxed on it, they turned it around, hired more people, became innovative, invested back into communities.  I know my history, thank you very much.

 

This nation WAS FOUNDED ON THE GENERAL WELFARE.    No, sorry.  Our private sector won't do it.  They look for handouts themselves.

 

We as a country need to be an example and we still are the richest in the world.  


The wars?  The biggest expense in this country is education (most expensive, some of the worst results) and other bennies to the masses.  

 

I would recommend some research into just how much private charities did during the depression, and in general, before mass welfare was created.  They did a great job and still do.  

 

General welfare?  The Pilgrims tried socialism, and a bunch of them died.  And no, that's not what founded this country.  There's nothing in those first years through to the Constitution that states any such thing beyond fed and state responsibilities..

 

Richest country?  If the unfunded liabilities really are ov er 100-200 trillion, there's no way to ever pay that off.  Even seizing the assets of the rich, which would destroy all of the jobs they reate, wouldn't even fund this country for nine months.  Then what?  

 

 

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Re: For those interested in the process

[ Edited ]

@blahblahvampemerblah wrote:

@rosie03 wrote:

Who supports them once they are here?


We do.  There's actually a government program paying for ads in Mexico to tell them how to get benefits in America once they cross the border.  No joke, the program costs millions each year.


`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

I was surprised to see the very same thing when we were posted in a few of those mostly southern "red states" that depend on government funding.

 

Whereas my post is true, yours isn't.

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Re: For those interested in the process

[ Edited ]

My friend's father came here as a refugee from Cambodia, escaping the Khmer Rouge. He was in a refugee camp in Thailand for EIGHT YEARS before he was allowed to come here.

 

He is a hard working man, proud to have become an American.

 

My mother's family came here before WWII from Italy and my dad came from Germany. He and my Oma were stuck there during WWII...his father had come here years before and sponsored them after the war.

 

War is hell. My father told us terrible stories of being bombed, seeing dead bodies, not knowing if he would die in a horrible violent way. Luckily he was too young to serve in the German army and hid when they came for young teens.

 

I don't blame these people for fleeing.

 

If we DON'T help - it's just a recruiting tool for ISIS...they will tell people that the West doesn't care about them at all.

 

Edited to add: Let's face it - most of our ancestors fled Europe to escape war, poverty or famine. They didn't decide to leave their parents and grandparents and everyone and everything they loved on a whim. It was generally to escape terrible circumstances.

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Re: For those interested in the processo


@Mominohio wrote:

@biancardi wrote:

@Mominohio wrote:

@sunshine45 wrote:

@Jackaranda wrote:

@sunshine45 wrote:

@Jackaranda wrote:

Real quick, I have that pesky question of who is going to pay for these vaccinations,doctor visits, housing,school supplies for the children, cell phones,prescriptions, etc.?I mean they won!tbhave jobs yet when they land here, oh wait I just figured it out , the taxpayers. I will tell hubby to work some overtime.


 

 

 

as a human being we all have responsibility to care for other human beings.....no matter where they are from.....being "tapped out" is not an excuse in my opinion.


And that is why our deficit is so large. Our counties take in their share. We have already done our share in history. 


 

 

 

i so disagree.........and as time continues and marches forward so do our responsibilites as citizens  of the world.


Everything and everyone has limits, and financial ones as well. 

 

 


 

considering our taxes are at the lowest in decades, we need to raise them.  Sorry, but our nation is spoiled to the hilt over taxes and not paying for anything.


Our spending needs to be curtailed, taxes lowered, and have private charity step up and fund more refugees. Our nation is broke (acutally we'd be good if it was just broke, but so far in debt you can't even count the zeros and more). And the more taxes they take the more money they spend (at all levels of government). 

 

It is insane to say that we are not paying for anything (through taxes). I know we are, but if you aren't please sent in more each quarter. Sure the government will be glad to mishandle it for you.


 

 

this is just a walking talking point.  Seriously, look at our tax rates.  Trickle down economics FAILED. 

 

It isn't insane to say that the wealthy are not paying their fair share and neither are we - we haven't paid for those insane and illegal wars started back in 2003.

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