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Respected Contributor
Posts: 3,958
Registered: ‎09-28-2010

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone


@MaggieMack wrote:

I just heard a discussion on this. Apparently, in the 1990s there was a telecommunications act passed that prohibited any company from creating a phone that could not be wire tapped. This case is very similar. I think the court will side with the gov, as it should.


No, this is not about wire-tapping, it's about accessing stored data.  In the past, the courts have ruled that a suspect cannot be forced to unlock their phone or other equipment.  If the government wants that data, and if they are so convinced that it is already a capability, then government tech experts should be able to do it without demanding that Apple get involved.

 

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Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone


@MaggieMack wrote:

So, if I forget my pass code, I'm screwed. Apple has no way to get me into my phone. Oh, that's right, I also have finger print entry. Maybe the FBI should look into getting into the phone that way.

 

I am on the FBI's side on this one. If I were Tim Cook, I wouldn't want future terrorist related deaths on me and my refusal to help. In the big picture, it's only a matter of time before SOMEone figures this out, I just hope they're on our side.

 

 


A very valid issue is, what if there is info on that phone that might prevent another terrorist attack. Apple prevents the access. The attack happens - and it is later connected to the SB terrorists in some way. Everyone okay with that? What if your spouse, son/daughter, brother/sister or grandchild was killed in a subsequent attack. Still on Apple's side?

 

I grew up in a household that championed the govt having no right to spy on the individual, unless that individual believed something my parents didn't (lol). My POV has always been I'm not doing anything criminal and most people are not doing anything criminal, so why be so defensive? 

 

I feel that Apple is making it out to be a bigger deal than it might actually be, for publicity. Their sales numbers are down. This gets them maybe some new customers. I'm not buying their altruism.

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Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone


@Buck-i-Nana wrote:

@truffle wrote:

Tim Cook, the CEO needs to be thrown into jail for refusing a court order.  The FBI made it very clear that Apple already KNOWS how to access the phone in question and sharing that with them would have no bearing on anyone else as it's specific to that particular phone.  The FBI has a right to know who the terrorists were talking to as this information could prevent additional attacks.  


We all know the government doesn't lie or exaggerate their case when it suits their purpose right?

 

What the government wants does NOT exist now.  If you forgot your password, and didn't have fingerprint entry capability, then you would have to reset your phone and lose your data.  It's that's simple, and it is spelled out clearly by apple.

 


I am more than happy to give the FBI the benefit of the doubt when it comes to protecting Americans from terrorism.  Apple is not stupid.  They already have the technology to log onto that phone.  

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Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

[ Edited ]

 

 

As other have said, this is not a simple issue. 

 

Please read:

 

 

Why Tim Cook is right to call court-ordered iPhone hack a “backdoor”

 

"Tuesday's court order compelling Apple to hack the iPhone belonging to a gunman who killed 14 people and injured 22 others has ignited an acrimonious debate.

 

CEO Tim Cook called the order "chilling" because, he said, it requires company engineers to create the equivalent of a backdoor that could be used against any iPhone. Law enforcement officials, meanwhile, contend the order is narrowly tailored to ensure only the shooter's phone is covered.

 

Here's why the totality of what we know right now leans in favor of Cook and his slippery slope argument.
 

The order requires Apple to create a customized version of iOS that will run only on the iPhone 5C belonging to Syed Rizwan Farook. Along with his wife, Tashfeen Malik, Farook went on a deadly shooting rampage in San Bernadino.

 

The FBI understandably wants access to the data stored on Farook's phone so investigators have a better idea of the events leading up to the deadly attack and whether the husband-and-wife team received support from unknown people.

 

But so far investigators have been unable to unlock the device. Security measures Apple built into the iPhone limit the number of guesses they can make, and there's also concern too many guesses could cause the phone to automatically destroy the data it stores.

 

The special iOS version the court ordered would work around these restrictions.

 

It would remove normal iOS functions Apple created to intentionally increase the amount of time it takes to repeatedly enter passcodes, and it would allow an unlimited number of guesses to be made without destroying any data.

 

The Apple-produced software must also allow the FBI to submit PIN code guesses through the phone's physical device port or through Bluetooth or Wi-Fi connections, a requirement that would allow investigators to use speedy computer scripts rather than manually enter each PIN candidate.

 

Based on the wording of the order, the customized iOS version probably wouldn't be directly installed on the phone, but rather loaded into the phone's memory, in much the way OSes can be booted from a USB drive.

 

Because of requirements that iPhone software be digitally signed using valid Apple signing keys, Apple is the only company capable of installing the custom OS on Farook's phone without going through the extremely risky process of jailbreaking it. In essence, the order requires Apple to create software that bypasses all of these key security features it built into the iPhone.

 

Aye, there's the rub

 

To make this order more palatable, the court and the FBI stress that the software should work only on the 5C model owned by Farook.

 

And this is the rub that generates legitimate concern.

 

The court order provides no guidance on how Apple engineers should enable the restriction. No doubt, there are a few different technical avenues that might make it possible. For instance, the custom iOS version might be programmed to install only on a device that matches the exact hardware ID number corresponding to Farook's phone.

 

But as the order is drafted now, there are no guarantees that government officials won't get access to the software.

 

That means it's also feasible that any software Apple produces would be reverse-engineered by government engineers and very possibly private forensics experts who regularly work with law enforcement agencies.

 

And if the past digital rights management bypasses are any guide, odds are that with enough analysis, someone will figure out a way to remove the restriction that the OS install itself only on Farook's phone.

 

From there, anyone with access to the custom iOS version would have an Apple-developed exploit that undoes years of work the company put into securing its flagship iPhone product.

 

It's always risky when judges with little or no technical background make legally binding orders compelling the design of software with so many specific requirements.

 

How can US Magistrate Judge Sheri Pym know if it's even possible for Apple to design a version of iOS that will install on only a single, designated phone?

 

And how is anyone supposed to know that such a measure can't be bypassed the way so many other software restrictions are hacked?

 

The answer is she can't know, and neither can anyone else.

 

Besides the potential for abuse, some critics argue that a court-ordered exploit sets a dangerous example on the international stage.

 

"This move by the FBI could snowball around the world," Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon told The Guardian. "Why in the world would our government want to give repressive regimes in Russia and China a blueprint for forcing American companies to create a backdoor?"

 

If countries know Apple already has created the software needed to bypass iPhone security, the temptation to order Apple to use it would be strong, critics say.

 

It would be one thing for the court to order Apple to brute force this one device and turn over the data stored on it.

 

It's altogether something else to require that Apple turn over powerful exploit software and claim that whatever digital locks are included can't be undone by a determined adversary.

 

That's why it's no exaggeration for Cook to call Tuesday's order chilling and to warn that its prospects for abuse of such a backdoor are high."

 

 

source:  http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/02/why-tim-cook-is-right-to-call-court-ordered-iphone-hack-a...

 
Few things reveal your intellect and your generosity of spirit—the parallel powers of your heart and mind—better than how you give feedback.~Maria Popova
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Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

[ Edited ]

The phone will lock up after incorrectly trying to logon10 times.  That is what the FBI wants assistance with; to avoid the phone from locking up.  

Respected Contributor
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Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

@truffle - The very sad truth is if the government and law enforcement and politicians want the American people to jump in blindly in support of something all they have to do is include the word terrorist.  Bingo.

 

Fact is that the American people are more in danger of being killed or injured in a non-terrorist related criminal act.  Fact is that people are already much more at risk of identity theft by common criminals, and forcing this action to build in a backdoor will make every single American even more vulnerable to criminal theft of personal data as well as the possibility of those very terrorists to hijack your cellphone identity!

 

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Posts: 622
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

An excerpt from Tim Cook's open customer letter (the bolding is mine):

 

For many years, we have used encryption to protect our customers’ personal data because we believe it’s the only way to keep their information safe. We have even put that data out of our own reach, because we believe the contents of your iPhone are none of our business.

 

When the FBI has requested data that’s in our possession, we have provided it. Apple complies with valid subpoenas and search warrants, as we have in the San Bernardino case. We have also made Apple engineers available to advise the FBI, and we’ve offered our best ideas on a number of investigative options at their disposal.

 

We have great respect for the professionals at the FBI, and we believe their intentions are good. Up to this point, we have done everything that is both within our power and within the law to help them. But now the U.S. government has asked us for something we simply do not have, and something we consider too dangerous to create. They have asked us to build a backdoor to the iPhone.

 

Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software — which does not exist today — would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession.

 

The FBI may use different words to describe this tool, but make no mistake: Building a version of iOS that bypasses security in this way would undeniably create a backdoor. And while the government may argue that its use would be limited to this case, there is no way to guarantee such control.

 

The more I think about it, the more I side with Apple on this one.

 

 

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Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone


@Buck-i-Nana wrote:

@truffle - The very sad truth is if the government and law enforcement and politicians want the American people to jump in blindly in support of something all they have to do is include the word terrorist.  Bingo.

 

Fact is that the American people are more in danger of being killed or injured in a non-terrorist related criminal act.  Fact is that people are already much more at risk of identity theft by common criminals, and forcing this action to build in a backdoor will make every single American even more vulnerable to criminal theft of personal data as well as the possibility of those very terrorists to hijack your cellphone identity!

 


We're talking about a crime that has already been committed and the FBI's investigation into that crime.  Apple should cooperate and I hope they suffer dire consequences by refusing.  I will boycott them as will millions of other people around the world.  

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Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone


@sharlee wrote:

An excerpt from Tim Cook's open customer letter (the bolding is mine):

 

For many years, we have used encryption to protect our customers’ personal data because we believe it’s the only way to keep their information safe. We have even put that data out of our own reach, because we believe the contents of your iPhone are none of our business.

 

When the FBI has requested data that’s in our possession, we have provided it. Apple complies with valid subpoenas and search warrants, as we have in the San Bernardino case. We have also made Apple engineers available to advise the FBI, and we’ve offered our best ideas on a number of investigative options at their disposal.

 

We have great respect for the professionals at the FBI, and we believe their intentions are good. Up to this point, we have done everything that is both within our power and within the law to help them. But now the U.S. government has asked us for something we simply do not have, and something we consider too dangerous to create. They have asked us to build a backdoor to the iPhone.

 

Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software — which does not exist today — would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession.

 

The FBI may use different words to describe this tool, but make no mistake: Building a version of iOS that bypasses security in this way would undeniably create a backdoor. And while the government may argue that its use would be limited to this case, there is no way to guarantee such control.

 

 

 

The more I think about it, the more I side with Apple on this one.

 

 


 

        @sharlee, I side with Apple on this, also.   Thanks for posting this.

 

 

Few things reveal your intellect and your generosity of spirit—the parallel powers of your heart and mind—better than how you give feedback.~Maria Popova
Respected Contributor
Posts: 3,958
Registered: ‎09-28-2010

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone


@truffle wrote:

@Buck-i-Nana wrote:

@truffle - The very sad truth is if the government and law enforcement and politicians want the American people to jump in blindly in support of something all they have to do is include the word terrorist.  Bingo.

 

Fact is that the American people are more in danger of being killed or injured in a non-terrorist related criminal act.  Fact is that people are already much more at risk of identity theft by common criminals, and forcing this action to build in a backdoor will make every single American even more vulnerable to criminal theft of personal data as well as the possibility of those very terrorists to hijack your cellphone identity!

 


We're talking about a crime that has already been committed and the FBI's investigation into that crime.  Apple should cooperate and I hope they suffer dire consequences by refusing.  I will boycott them as will millions of other people around the world.  


Again, this cannot, CANNOT, be limited to just one phone. 

 

Please DO boycott Apple.  For every person who will boycott, I imagine there will be one standing in line who in the past only made fun of Apple products and apple users.