Among Friends

[hyacinth003]

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@KathyPet wrote:

@hyacinth003

For some reason I clearly remember your posts about the many issues concerning your FIL's estate and I wondered what the final,outcome was.  IF I recall your FIL left his home to your DH and his three brothers.  THe house was being rented and one brother was controlling all the income and expense payments and was not,willing to share the information with the other brothers.  YOur DH and one brother wanted to,sell the house and the other two wanted to keep it.  THe two who wanted to keep it offered to buy out the half owned by your DH and the other brother who wanted to sell.  THe house was appraised to obtain a selling price but the two who wanted to buy it balked at the appraisal price saying it was too high. THat is the last I saw about it.  IF you wouldn't mind telling me just to satisfy my curiosity what was the eventual outcome?

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They had signed a contract (binding agreement) between the 4 brothers to accept the certified appraisal.  Then the 2 who wanted to buy said they would NOT buy it at that price.  There was a second part of the agreement that said "if for any reason they don't buy it, it had to go on the market."  Well, the one brother stalled that for about 3 years.  He did not want it sold, but he never would agree to the appraiser's price.  So the other brother who wanted to sell (co-trustee) took him to court to force the sale.  Court forced the sale, and the Estate spent $90,000 on legal fees.  So, instead of his son's getting what he wanted them to get, so much money went to lawyers.  Broke up the entire family.  So, I am sadly well versed how Estates work.  In my opinion, courts are lazy in really working to get to the bottom of things.  As long as lawyers make their money, and their vacation schedules are respected, all is well.  Clients mean nothing more than that.

So, I would never want to experience something like that again.  And I would not want to ever see the dishonesty people are capable of when they want control.

Hyacinth

[hyacinth003]

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@Carmie wrote:

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@hyacinth003 wrote:

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@occasionalrain wrote:

Now she's gotten herself on the bank account; don't be surprised if sooner than later she obtains Power of Attorney. It will be too late to stop her then.

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I have asked my dad to name a power of attorney.  I said name my brother, name me, or both of us.  He thinks it's all taken care of with the Will.  I tried to tell him differently and told him of my husband's dad and how he needed it.  That's a whole other story, as I am sure brother-in-law took complete advantage of it and didn't even tell his other brother he was also named. 

My dad is not stupid.  He had his own business for many years.  I am an RN and think a power of attorney is important for potential medical issues.  I believe I know his feelings.

We had to make medical decisions for my mother.  It was okay because my dad was present and we all agreed.  But you just don't know all scenarios.

I may try again to broach it.  Good suggestions!

Hyacinth

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A POA is not longer valid when a person is deceased.  You can only make decisions for a person with a POA when they are alive.

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I understand that.  I am the Executor of his Estate, but it doesn't cover things while he is alive.  I have asked him to do it while he still can make his own decisions.  I may ask him again now that he is more settled.  I have suggested he make me, my brother, or both of us.  I would like it to be spelled out so there are NO questions.  I don't think my brother and I would have any disagreement on health issues, but you never know.

I have seen this issue played out in my husband's family also.  It is horrible what some people will do when they want CONTROL.  As my dad's first child, all I want is to honor him and his wishes.

Hyacinth

[hyacinth003]

Thank you for all the thoughtful responses.  You have given me things to think about, which is what I wanted.

Hyacinth

[Daysdee]

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@hyacinth003 wrote:

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@Perkup wrote:

I guess I'm a little confused here.  If you are all three on the checking account, what possible difference can it make what order the names come in?  Does this matter to the bank?  I would definitely ask someone at the bank whether this has any importance.

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I don't think it does.

However, it FEELS wrong to me.  Not that it is technically wrong.

Hyacinth

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I don't think it matters to the bank, but I certainly feel your point and I would be concerned if it was my parent.  I would think you and your brother should be the only two on the account with your Dad.    If your brother wants her to help him out, she could write the check for his or your Dad's signature.  I personally see no need for her to be on the account.

[Daysdee]

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@VanSleepy wrote:

It is a bit odd that if you are nearby and willing and able to do these things for your father that she is jumping up to be "the caregiver".  Have you ever told your father that he needn't rely on her so much since you are available for him?

Even though the order of the names doesn't matter, that would probably tick me off, too.  I would be more worried that someday your brother and SIL will say they are entitled to 2/3 of that money because both of their names are on it and that's what your dad wanted.  It might sound crazy and people might think their family wouldn't do such a thing, but that exact scenario happened to one of my in-laws.

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@VanSleepy wrote:

It is a bit odd that if you are nearby and willing and able to do these things for your father that she is jumping up to be "the caregiver".  Have you ever told your father that he needn't rely on her so much since you are available for him?

Even though the order of the names doesn't matter, that would probably tick me off, too.  I would be more worried that someday your brother and SIL will say they are entitled to 2/3 of that money because both of their names are on it and that's what your dad wanted.  It might sound crazy and people might think their family wouldn't do such a thing, but that exact scenario happened to one of my in-laws.

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I was thinking pretty much the same thing.  If it is a joint account for all four of you and if your Dad passes first, the account (I believe) belongs to those named on the account which appears it would be divided by 3 instead of just you and your brother.  I don't see the need for her to be on the account at all.  You or your brother (or your Dad) could reimburse her for items she buys for him.

[Daysdee]

He does need a power of attorney and also a health care directive.  Many hospitals ask for this when you are admitted even though I have seen some people not  have one and not get one done.     As far as paying the bills, if your Dad is in assisted living or going into one, he shouldn't have too many bills to pay each month--(no TV bill, water bill, gas/electric, etc.)   Also when he sells the home, will a lot of money be put into the checking account?     I think it should be the names of your Dad and you and your brother on the account.    Beware.

[deb5555]

For a Peace-of-mind go see an estate planner, they are worth it! Write down all your questions and call one. You have to be very careful with this!!

[jaxs mom]

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@hyacinth003 wrote:

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@Carmie wrote:

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@hyacinth003 wrote:

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@occasionalrain wrote:

Now she's gotten herself on the bank account; don't be surprised if sooner than later she obtains Power of Attorney. It will be too late to stop her then.

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I have asked my dad to name a power of attorney.  I said name my brother, name me, or both of us.  He thinks it's all taken care of with the Will.  I tried to tell him differently and told him of my husband's dad and how he needed it.  That's a whole other story, as I am sure brother-in-law took complete advantage of it and didn't even tell his other brother he was also named. 

My dad is not stupid.  He had his own business for many years.  I am an RN and think a power of attorney is important for potential medical issues.  I believe I know his feelings.

We had to make medical decisions for my mother.  It was okay because my dad was present and we all agreed.  But you just don't know all scenarios.

I may try again to broach it.  Good suggestions!

Hyacinth

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A POA is not longer valid when a person is deceased.  You can only make decisions for a person with a POA when they are alive.

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I understand that.  I am the Executor of his Estate, but it doesn't cover things while he is alive.  I have asked him to do it while he still can make his own decisions.  I may ask him again now that he is more settled.  I have suggested he make me, my brother, or both of us.  I would like it to be spelled out so there are NO questions.  I don't think my brother and I would have any disagreement on health issues, but you never know.

I have seen this issue played out in my husband's family also.  It is horrible what some people will do when they want CONTROL.  As my dad's first child, all I want is to honor him and his wishes.

Hyacinth

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You seem to be very concerned with seniority. You're the "first child" you're the daughter, you're this and that. 

It's not the middle ages, primogeniture isn't applicable anymore and even if it was, sons were the only ones that mattered anyway. 

[Isobel Archer]

I'm a little confused.  You say your SIL is "right there."  Does that mean you are far away?

You say you want to take care of his bills, but she is the one who got him on electronic bill pay and seems to be handling that for him.  If you wanted to do it yourself, why didn't you?

You say before you had a chance to hear back from Assisted Living, she had made an appointment.  Also that before you could enlist a realtor, she did.

I don't know the circumstances here, but is she really easing you out or is she just more proactive in getting things done.  Is it a clash of personalities - you don't see any rush, she wants it done, thinks she's helping and just does it?

If he's using electronic bill pay, what would she be writing checks for?  Is she doing his grocery shopping or something?  If so, why aren't you doing that - or again are you too far away?

It sounds like you are worried she will clean out his account.  If you truly think that is possible, then maybe you shouldn't agree with adding her name.  Altho if you take that route, you will clearly alienate her - and possibly your brother and father as well.

And ultimately, since it's your father's money, I'm not sure you can prevent her name on the account anyway.

[Lilysmom]

@hyacinth003, some times you get more than you bargained for in a thread and this may be one example.  There are so many different experiences of posters here.  To really get the right answers, you need to discuss this with an attorney in the state where you live.  To me, that is the first step in making an informed decision about where you want to go from here.  There are family intricacies and nuances that none of us here understand.

 If you are concerned, be properly informed and decide on the course of action based on the facts.

Good luck.  LM