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11-18-2014 04:48 PM
Have been using Skinceuticals C, E, Ferulic. It is pricey!
I see another serum (Mad Hippie) for $29.99 with the same ingredients. And their are other examples of this. I know percentage of ingredients make a difference too.
My understanding is the Skinceuticals has a patent, so that accounts for some of the price.
My question is - does anyone know if the expensive one is superior, or can we get the same results and not pay so much?
Hyacinth
11-18-2014 05:47 PM
I've been using the Vitamin C serum from JJ Labs (Amazon and Etsy) and have been very satisfied. They make to order, have comparable ingredients & pH, ship mega fast and are only $16. Several other forum members have made the switch.
11-18-2014 06:51 PM
I used NCN's (way less $$ than Skinceuticals but a bit more than Mad Hippie) but just tried JJ Labs because of F1wild's suggestion. About half the price.
It doesn't have the E or Ferulic, but I'm not sure I'm going to miss those. BUT, I might -- all I can do is try, and all you can do is try. We're not locked into any product forever.
Nanci's (NCN) C has the same ingredients as Skinceuticals, too. I think the patent on the Skinceuticals has to do with the percentage or pH or something, but not on the recipe itself?
Some people love Mad Hippie, others aren't that impressed. Try SOMETHING else -- anything will be less costly -- and if you don't like that, move on.
Good luck!!
11-18-2014 07:11 PM
About this patent thing: I found the following on futurederm.com, but I'll follow this quote with a question I have:
Ever since Dr. Sheldon Pinnell discovered vitamin C as L-ascorbic acid could stimulate the production of collagen in the skin in 1992, vitamin C skin care has been popular. Dr. Pinnell was instrumental in the development of Cellex-C and later founded Skinceuticals.
The ingredients within its best-selling product, Skinceuticals CE Ferulic ($118.99, amazon.com), were found to boost sun protection when applied under sunscreen by four-fold, as published in the American Journal of Dermatology in 2005.
Despite the fact Skinceuticals CE Ferulic is patented (US patent number: 20050154054), several alternative products now exist. This is because the patent explicitly only includes vitamin C as L-ascorbic acid between a pH of 2.5 and 3.0, whereas the alternatives include tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate or magnesium ascorbyl palmitate and/or a slightly higher pH.
Is this patent still in existence? Because NCN is selling a product based on L-ascorbic acid that has a pH in the 2.0 to 2.5 range.
11-18-2014 07:57 PM
They deleted my post because I had links in it.
I would try Timeless. It's ~$25 and you can get it from Amazon or the Timeless site. I saw Hot and Flashy do a comparison of Timeless, Paula's Choice, and one other and Timeless won AND was the most affordable. Mad Hippie is a thicker serum and Timeless is more watery. I mix it into my Josie Maran Argan Milk serum and use that under my moisturizer.
11-18-2014 08:26 PM
On 11/18/2014 suzyQ3 said:About this patent thing: I found the following on futurederm.com, but I'll follow this quote with a question I have:
Ever since Dr. Sheldon Pinnell discovered vitamin C as L-ascorbic acid could stimulate the production of collagen in the skin in 1992, vitamin C skin care has been popular. Dr. Pinnell was instrumental in the development of Cellex-C and later founded Skinceuticals.
The ingredients within its best-selling product, Skinceuticals CE Ferulic ($118.99, amazon.com), were found to boost sun protection when applied under sunscreen by four-fold, as published in the American Journal of Dermatology in 2005.
Despite the fact Skinceuticals CE Ferulic is patented (US patent number: 20050154054), several alternative products now exist. This is because the patent explicitly only includes vitamin C as L-ascorbic acid between a pH of 2.5 and 3.0, whereas the alternatives include tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate or magnesium ascorbyl palmitate and/or a slightly higher pH.
Is this patent still in existence? Because NCN is selling a product based on L-ascorbic acid that has a pH in the 2.0 to 2.5 range.
NCN's is 2, so below the perameter.
Myshell tested the JJ Labs at 2, too.
11-18-2014 09:08 PM
On 11/18/2014 MarenSeattle said:On 11/18/2014 suzyQ3 said:About this patent thing: I found the following on futurederm.com, but I'll follow this quote with a question I have:
<em>Ever since Dr. Sheldon Pinnell discovered vitamin C as L-ascorbic acid could stimulate the production of collagen in the skin in 1992, vitamin C skin care has been popular. Dr. Pinnell was instrumental in the development of Cellex-C and later founded Skinceuticals.</em>
<em>The ingredients within its best-selling product, Skinceuticals CE Ferulic ($118.99, amazon.com), were found to boost sun protection when applied under sunscreen by four-fold, as published in the American Journal of Dermatology in 2005.</em>
<em>Despite the fact Skinceuticals CE Ferulic is patented (US patent number: 20050154054), several alternative products now exist. This is because the patent explicitly only includes vitamin C as L-ascorbic acid between a pH of 2.5 and 3.0, whereas the alternatives include tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate or magnesium ascorbyl palmitate and/or a slightly higher pH.</em>
Is this patent still in existence? Because NCN is selling a product based on L-ascorbic acid that has a pH in the 2.0 to 2.5 range.
NCN's is 2, so below the perameter.
Myshell tested the JJ Labs at 2, too.
IIRC, Nanci once mentioned to me that hers was about 2.5 or close thereto. Maybe the ph varies from batch to batch? But I doubt it would be easy to nail anyone else for producing an L-ascorbic serum between 2.5 and 3.0.
Of course, I'm just thinking out loud.
11-18-2014 09:11 PM
On 11/18/2014 suzyQ3 said:On 11/18/2014 MarenSeattle said:On 11/18/2014 suzyQ3 said:About this patent thing: I found the following on futurederm.com, but I'll follow this quote with a question I have:
<em>Ever since Dr. Sheldon Pinnell discovered vitamin C as L-ascorbic acid could stimulate the production of collagen in the skin in 1992, vitamin C skin care has been popular. Dr. Pinnell was instrumental in the development of Cellex-C and later founded Skinceuticals.</em>
<em>The ingredients within its best-selling product, Skinceuticals CE Ferulic ($118.99, amazon.com), were found to boost sun protection when applied under sunscreen by four-fold, as published in the American Journal of Dermatology in 2005.</em>
<em>Despite the fact Skinceuticals CE Ferulic is patented (US patent number: 20050154054), several alternative products now exist. This is because the patent explicitly only includes vitamin C as L-ascorbic acid between a pH of 2.5 and 3.0, whereas the alternatives include tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate or magnesium ascorbyl palmitate and/or a slightly higher pH.</em>
Is this patent still in existence? Because NCN is selling a product based on L-ascorbic acid that has a pH in the 2.0 to 2.5 range.
NCN's is 2, so below the perameter.
Myshell tested the JJ Labs at 2, too.
IIRC, Nanci once mentioned to me that hers was about 2.5 or close thereto. Maybe the ph varies from batch to batch? But I doubt it would be easy to nail anyone else for producing an L-ascorbic serum between 2.5 and 3.0.
Of course, I'm just thinking out loud.
actually, according to the actual patent it says pH no more than 3.5 throughout most of the patent and at one point says, "The composition has a pH of no more than about 3.5 or about 2.5 to 3.0."
ETA: just briefly reading the patent, it sounds like the patent is on the WAY they stabilized their L-ascorbic acid. They can't patent something basic like L-ascorbic being in a pH of a certain amount. I wouldn't pay more for something like this just because they have a patent on they way they stabilize it when there are other ways you can stabilize it, as evident in other L-ascorbic acid products on the market that meet the appropriate requirements.
11-18-2014 09:47 PM
On 11/18/2014 ChynnaBlue said:They deleted my post because I had links in it.
I would try Timeless. It's ~$25 and you can get it from Amazon or the Timeless site. I saw Hot and Flashy do a comparison of Timeless, Paula's Choice, and one other and Timeless won AND was the most affordable. Mad Hippie is a thicker serum and Timeless is more watery. I mix it into my Josie Maran Argan Milk serum and use that under my moisturizer.
They apparently no longer sell directly on Amazon. A couple resellers do and charge double or more than the $25.
FWIW, the company has an F from the BBB based on length of time to address customer complaints and concerns, which seems also to be a common thread in the negative reviews on Amazon.
The website has no phone number for contact, but I did see it on the BBB page and one other site that had complaints.
Overall, the product does have 4 stars on Amazon.
11-18-2014 09:50 PM
On 11/18/2014 HappyDaze said:On 11/18/2014 suzyQ3 said:On 11/18/2014 MarenSeattle said:On 11/18/2014 suzyQ3 said:About this patent thing: I found the following on futurederm.com, but I'll follow this quote with a question I have:
<em>Ever since Dr. Sheldon Pinnell discovered vitamin C as L-ascorbic acid could stimulate the production of collagen in the skin in 1992, vitamin C skin care has been popular. Dr. Pinnell was instrumental in the development of Cellex-C and later founded Skinceuticals.</em>
<em>The ingredients within its best-selling product, Skinceuticals CE Ferulic ($118.99, amazon.com), were found to boost sun protection when applied under sunscreen by four-fold, as published in the American Journal of Dermatology in 2005.</em>
<em>Despite the fact Skinceuticals CE Ferulic is patented (US patent number: 20050154054), several alternative products now exist. This is because the patent explicitly only includes vitamin C as L-ascorbic acid between a pH of 2.5 and 3.0, whereas the alternatives include tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate or magnesium ascorbyl palmitate and/or a slightly higher pH.</em>
Is this patent still in existence? Because NCN is selling a product based on L-ascorbic acid that has a pH in the 2.0 to 2.5 range.
NCN's is 2, so below the perameter.
Myshell tested the JJ Labs at 2, too.
IIRC, Nanci once mentioned to me that hers was about 2.5 or close thereto. Maybe the ph varies from batch to batch? But I doubt it would be easy to nail anyone else for producing an L-ascorbic serum between 2.5 and 3.0.
Of course, I'm just thinking out loud.
actually, according to the actual patent it says pH no more than 3.5 throughout most of the patent and at one point says, "The composition has a pH of no more than about 3.5 or about 2.5 to 3.0."
ETA: just briefly reading the patent, it sounds like the patent is on the WAY they stabilized their L-ascorbic acid. They can't patent something basic like L-ascorbic being in a pH of a certain amount. I wouldn't pay more for something like this just because they have a patent on they way they stabilize it when there are other ways you can stabilize it, as evident in other L-ascorbic acid products on the market that meet the appropriate requirements.
That makes much more sense. I had a hard time with the idea that you could patent the pH level, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to be sure.
I agree with you about the stabilizing.
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