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philosophy

Pre-Coty Philosophy vs. Coty Philosophy. What's the difference?

Started 1348970270.47 in philosophy | Last reply 1349268445.317 by belleandme

Hey guys. I've mentioned quite a few times on these boards that I am relatively new to Philosophy (started using in mid-July) and read a lot about people saying they prefer Philosophy before Coty took over.

I'm just wondering what the differences are. I do know, from what many have said, that the Grace scents are different and smelled better prior to the company takeover, but are there any other differences? I'm curious. Also, when did Coty buy out Philosophy?

Army Strong - Hooah!

21 y/o. Short, black hair. Tan skin. Brown eyes. I love Philosophy!

Page 1 of 1
Patti671348972618.3671199 PostsRegistered 5/21/2011

Coty purchased philosophy in December 2010.

The biggest difference I've noticed is there are fewer promotions & discounts. I remember one promo ending and another beginning--constantly. It was fun and exciting!! Things have gotten a bit boring. I know when there were multiple promos/discounts I spent WAY more money on philosophy.

belleandme1349008725.218642 PostsRegistered 7/13/2009southern illinois

.

morning armygirl!

well the biggest thing i notice is the companies schizophrenia!! lol! when the original developer christina was in charge, she made very few products, but each one had a distinct personality and packed a pretty good whammy in regards to effectiveness.

then she sold it to the carlyle group (sp?). there were subtle changes, but christina still popped her head in occasionally to talk about the products and it wasnt soooo bad.........

but since coty took over, it seems that there was a product frenzy, with no listening to customer requests, while throwing dozens of products out there to see what sticks so to speak.

i mean just start with the makeup, lets call it wc, and woc (with and with out christina), wc, there were very few makeup products but each one was a 'game changer' as she used to say. woc, the makeup has been through many incarnations with wildly disparate reviews. i myself, will not buy anything out now, except the divine illumination powder, until further improvements are made.

i have been using phil. since it came to the q. about 8-10 years (anyone remember??). they used to send out a little pamphlet with their stuff, and it explained the other stuff that was available. well, it had like 25 items. they were all multi-tasking, simple , easy to use high performance items!!! game changers.

now put phil in the search engine, and what like 348 items come up , or more??? which is fine if they are all good, but not so much if the quality is going out the window. which i am not claiming it has, yet, but there are very big concerns.

also, when phil became popular on the q, they would have lots of decent specials, and oto's like a 3-1 uber for 14.99 with no shipping.

thats another thing, they have gotten rid of all the large size bottles. bummer. at least for me, some only like the 16 ounce or smaller.

i know i am rambling, but literally you could combine at least 10 major threads on here and come up with a small book relating to this topic.

it all started when we began noticing an ingredient switch in the purity. it would have been one thing if they would have come out and said , "yo, we 'improved' the formula on the purity, deal with it", but not there was a bunch of cloak and dagger drama and people started wondering if phil could be trusted. it was like finding out there was no easter bunny.

then of course the grace changes, etc, yadda yadda yadda, and stuff is just not the same. its like the difference between how a doting mother dresses her child to go somewhere, versus how the dad lets the kid leave the house. except in this case, its like the parents let the kids stay home with drunk uncle larry, and he is passed out on the couch and the kids are running around in the street at dusk......................

then you find out the parents are stuck in a crate on a ship headed for south america and as the camera pans the horizion you wonder if the parents will ever make it home again. and who is going to tell little bobby and suzi......................................................................

so, that is my early morning rundown . see what danger can happen while i am waiting for the coffee to brew!!{#emotions_dlg.rolleyes}

take care, and i hope you get some less melodramatic answers!!, lol!

belleandme

FOUR BLOOD MOONS~~john hagee

"...There will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars...Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Luke 21:25a, 28

chrisc11349012578.8971131 PostsRegistered 1/17/2008
Im so in the minority, but I havent noticed any changes. Inhave not bought an AG in a long while except for the last TSV ( no spray frag in that), but thevother fragrances I have purchased along w lotions are great. The shower gels are great and I havent noticed sny change in skincare either. I did have s bad hiaj but is was from an old TSV and QVC replaced it for me.

ARMYGIRL68X1349018321.94545 PostsRegistered 6/19/2012TX
On 9/30/2012 belleandme said:

.

morning armygirl!

well the biggest thing i notice is the companies schizophrenia!! lol! when the original developer christina was in charge, she made very few products, but each one had a distinct personality and packed a pretty good whammy in regards to effectiveness.

then she sold it to the carlyle group (sp?). there were subtle changes, but christina still popped her head in occasionally to talk about the products and it wasnt soooo bad.........

but since coty took over, it seems that there was a product frenzy, with no listening to customer requests, while throwing dozens of products out there to see what sticks so to speak.

i mean just start with the makeup, lets call it wc, and woc (with and with out christina), wc, there were very few makeup products but each one was a 'game changer' as she used to say. woc, the makeup has been through many incarnations with wildly disparate reviews. i myself, will not buy anything out now, except the divine illumination powder, until further improvements are made.

i have been using phil. since it came to the q. about 8-10 years (anyone remember??). they used to send out a little pamphlet with their stuff, and it explained the other stuff that was available. well, it had like 25 items. they were all multi-tasking, simple , easy to use high performance items!!! game changers.

now put phil in the search engine, and what like 348 items come up , or more??? which is fine if they are all good, but not so much if the quality is going out the window. which i am not claiming it has, yet, but there are very big concerns.

also, when phil became popular on the q, they would have lots of decent specials, and oto's like a 3-1 uber for 14.99 with no shipping.

thats another thing, they have gotten rid of all the large size bottles. bummer. at least for me, some only like the 16 ounce or smaller.

i know i am rambling, but literally you could combine at least 10 major threads on here and come up with a small book relating to this topic.

it all started when we began noticing an ingredient switch in the purity. it would have been one thing if they would have come out and said , "yo, we 'improved' the formula on the purity, deal with it", but not there was a bunch of cloak and dagger drama and people started wondering if phil could be trusted. it was like finding out there was no easter bunny.

then of course the grace changes, etc, yadda yadda yadda, and stuff is just not the same. its like the difference between how a doting mother dresses her child to go somewhere, versus how the dad lets the kid leave the house. except in this case, its like the parents let the kids stay home with drunk uncle larry, and he is passed out on the couch and the kids are running around in the street at dusk......................

then you find out the parents are stuck in a crate on a ship headed for south america and as the camera pans the horizion you wonder if the parents will ever make it home again. and who is going to tell little bobby and suzi......................................................................

so, that is my early morning rundown . see what danger can happen while i am waiting for the coffee to brew!!{#emotions_dlg.rolleyes}

take care, and i hope you get some less melodramatic answers!!, lol!

belleandme

LOL thank you, belleandme, your answer was perfect and made me laugh!

Though I am pretty new to Philosophy, I also remember when they did not have as many products as they do now. About 5 or 6 years ago, when I was still in high school, I used to purchase a lot from Sephora's website and used to browse the Philosophy collection quite often. I didn't buy anything, though, because at that time I was unwilling to invest in it. (what happened!? LOL) Now, I can't keep up with all the different scents and products. Though I'd really like to own at least one of every 3-in-1 and lotion, there are just too many products for me to afford.

I'm very glad that I didn't have to suffer these changes in the brand because I'd be pretty upset to notice differences in my products. I really don't like when a company changes something, because people get used to the original and then when it changes, it usually changes for the worst. As I've said on other threads, the Grace scents really don't impress me at all. The AG is the only Grace scent I own, and it's just "okay" to me. It was probably much better before.

I really like the Purity, but I probably have no complaints because I didn't get to try the "old" Purity, which was probably a better formula.

Anyway, thank you for the great answer and for making me laugh this morning! I loved the comparison to the way parents dress their children and everything that followed. That was great LOL!

Army Strong - Hooah!

21 y/o. Short, black hair. Tan skin. Brown eyes. I love Philosophy!

belleandme1349098171.618642 PostsRegistered 7/13/2009southern illinois

NO prob army girl~~as you can tell i have spent too much time thinking about it. lol. yes it is a little different, but there is still much to enjoy!!!

as far as the showere gels, a very knowledgeable poster from down under (islamorada~sp), posted the list of all the gels to date: it was like over 300 the last time i saw it.

in the early days, i would have had them all, but not any more--i cant keep up!! i cant shower enough!!lol!

taKE IT easy, and have a great week,

belleandme

FOUR BLOOD MOONS~~john hagee

"...There will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars...Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Luke 21:25a, 28

Mona Dahl1349108901.6432201 PostsRegistered 3/29/2007

Belleandme's description of what has changed in Philosophy was absolutely fabulous! I agree wholeheartedly.

For me, the biggest and most troubling difference is that mediocre products are being put out left and right, instead of just a few, extremely innovative "game changers" that you could count on to change both your beauty routine and your life. Cristina Carlino was not only a perfectionist when it came to the standards of a product, but also a real maverick when it came to designing "square peg" products that didn't fall neatly into the old categories. That is why we have things like Amazing Grace, the Supernatural Poreless Flawless, Purity, The Present...and formerly the (awesome!) Supernatural Mascara and the Superbeautiful Hybrid Makeup. Cristina defied the norms of the industry with her unique, multitasking products--in fact, she insisted on it, saying she would not market a product unles it would turn the whole category on its head. She also insisted that every Philosophy product be good for sensitive and acne-prone skin, and pleasing in terms of fragrance and aesthetics. (Not all of these were true for everyone, but at least she tried.)

And yes, the line was limited to just a few dozen excellent products...and it really worked. It went with Philosophy's aesthetic of simplicity and a pared-down, manageable routine. Now, new products and lines are being released every minute or two. The fragrances have exploded from just three graces and FIL to 7 Graces, 4 Loves, Divine, and then the semi-fine fragrance category which includes Field of Flowers, Apricots and Cream, Fresh Cream, Be Somebody, Be Somebody Water Lily, etc., etc. Skincare went from being the basic Hope line plus When Hope is Not Enough to, now, the Hope line, the Oxygen line, the Keep the Peace line, the On A Clear Day line, the Miracle Worker Line, the When Hope Is Not Enough line, and the Full of Promises line. Makeup went from just a few Supernatural products to the Supernatural/Color of Grace ranges (which were actually good, IMO) and, most recently, the atrocious Divine Color line. So basically, Philosophy has become a mess. Worst of all, many of the new products seem designed to fit in to the "conventional" market, with an eye toward raising prices to be in line with other prestige brands. It is just the opposite of what Philosophy used to be about.

The other things that have changed are customer service--for awhile, it seemed like Coty/Philosophy really were not listening to our concerns, what with deleting negative Facebook posts, calling the fragrance changes a "rumor," and attempting to censor the QVC boards. Recently, that has turned around...but it is too early to tell if it will last. Pre-Coty, Philosophy had a lot of "goodwill" value that contributed greatly to the high price Coty paid to buy it. Upon the Coty acquisition, they quickly lost a lot of that "goodwill" value, and we could really see why.

Other new problems are quality control (especially for the fragrance products such as 3-in-1s, lotions, and sprays), and, of course, the FORMULA CHANGES. Most of us notice the biggest change in Amazing Grace, although other products (Purity, other fragrances) seem to have changed too. These changes are devastating to some of the loyal users. Until now, Philosophy had been denying that any change had been made. Now they seem to be trying to investigate what happened.

Obviously Philosophy has taken a big hit from Coty's changes. The value of the company went down a LOT--I want to say a quarter of a billion dollars, but that sounds like too much. (It was sold for a billion dollars and I seem to remember hearing it lost a quarter of its value.) In my Sephora, Philosophy went from having a big stand for bath + body plus a wall of skincare, to having a tiny bath and body shelf at the back of the store. Others have also mentioned that their Sephora, Nordstrom, and Ulta Philosophy sections have grown smaller. To compensate for this loss, Philosophy is raising prices on the staples that are still popular....and rolling out tons of new products to see what sticks (just like Belleandme said). Terrible idea, Philosophy. What you need is more editing, more care all around, and a return to the original brand vision. In short, what you need is Cristina.

Last edited on 10/1/2012

Last edited on 10/1/2012

Risk more than others think is safe,

Care more than others think is wise,

Dream more than others think is practical,

Expect more than others think is possible.

ARMYGIRL68X1349113835.447545 PostsRegistered 6/19/2012TX
On 10/1/2012 Mona Dahl said:

Belleandme's description of what has changed in Philosophy was absolutely fabulous! I agree wholeheartedly.

For me, the biggest and most troubling difference is that mediocre products are being put out left and right, instead of just a few, extremely innovative "game changers" that you could count on to change both your beauty routine and your life. Cristina Carlino was not only a perfectionist when it came to the standards of a product, but also a real maverick when it came to designing "square peg" products that didn't fall neatly into the old categories. That is why we have things like Amazing Grace, the Supernatural Poreless Flawless, Purity, The Present...and formerly the (awesome!) Supernatural Mascara and the Superbeautiful Hybrid Makeup. Cristina defied the norms of the industry with her unique, multitasking products--in fact, she insisted on it, saying she would not market a product unles it would turn the whole category on its head. She also insisted that every Philosophy product be good for sensitive and acne-prone skin, and pleasing in terms of fragrance and aesthetics. (Not all of these were true for everyone, but at least she tried.)

And yes, the line was limited to just a few dozen excellent products...and it really worked. It went with Philosophy's aesthetic of simplicity and a pared-down, manageable routine. Now, new products and lines are being released every minute or two. The fragrances have exploded from just three graces and FIL to 7 Graces, 4 Loves, Divine, and then the semi-fine fragrance category which includes Field of Flowers, Apricots and Cream, Fresh Cream, Be Somebody, Be Somebody Water Lily, etc., etc. Skincare went from being the basic Hope line plus When Hope is Not Enough to, now, the Hope line, the Oxygen line, the Keep the Peace line, the On A Clear Day line, the Miracle Worker Line, the When Hope Is Not Enough line, and the Full of Promises line. Makeup went from just a few Supernatural products to the Supernatural/Color of Grace ranges (which were actually good, IMO) and, most recently, the atrocious Divine Color line. So basically, Philosophy has become a mess. Worst of all, many of the new products seem designed to fit in to the "conventional" market, with an eye toward raising prices to be in line with other prestige brands. It is just the opposite of what Philosophy used to be about.

The other things that have changed are customer service--for awhile, it seemed like Coty/Philosophy really were not listening to our concerns, what with deleting negative Facebook posts, calling the fragrance changes a "rumor," and attempting to censor the QVC boards. Recently, that has turned around...but it is too early to tell if it will last. Pre-Coty, Philosophy had a lot of "goodwill" value that contributed greatly to the high price Coty paid to buy it. Upon the Coty acquisition, they quickly lost a lot of that "goodwill" value, and we could really see why.

Other new problems are quality control (especially for the fragrance products such as 3-in-1s, lotions, and sprays), and, of course, the FORMULA CHANGES. Most of us notice the biggest change in Amazing Grace, although other products (Purity, other fragrances) seem to have changed too. These changes are devastating to some of the loyal users. Until now, Philosophy had been denying that any change had been made. Now they seem to be trying to investigate what happened.

Obviously Philosophy has taken a big hit from Coty's changes. The value of the company went down a LOT--I want to say a quarter of a billion dollars, but that sounds like too much. (It was sold for a billion dollars and I seem to remember hearing it lost a quarter of its value.) In my Sephora, Philosophy went from having a big stand for bath + body plus a wall of skincare, to having a tiny bath and body shelf at the back of the store. Others have also mentioned that their Sephora, Nordstrom, and Ulta Philosophy sections have grown smaller. To compensate for this loss, Philosophy is raising prices on the staples that are still popular....and rolling out tons of new products to see what sticks (just like Belleandme said). Terrible idea, Philosophy. What you need is more editing, more care all around, and a return to the original brand vision. In short, what you need is Cristina.

Last edited on 10/1/2012

Thanks so much, Mona Dahl, for your response. It, in combination with Belle's reply, told me everything I needed to know about this situation.

I think it's terrible when companies buy out other companies and change around their products. While I appreciate all of the different 3-in-1 scents, I believe that Philosophy should bring back some of their "older" products; the staples that people seemed to routinely enjoy, rather than create all of these new products in place of the older, better ones.

I believe that having several different versions of the same product (i.e. - Graces, FOF, loves) is going a little overboard. If they stopped investing into making so many different products, maybe the prices of the products would be a bit cheaper. While I don't mind paying $16 for a 16oz 3-in-1 (hence my large collection), some of their products could be a bit pricey IMO.

Anyway, thanks for the review/comparison. I appreciate it. Have a wonderful week.

Army Strong - Hooah!

21 y/o. Short, black hair. Tan skin. Brown eyes. I love Philosophy!

Abby Grace1349127976.2871189 PostsRegistered 6/12/2011

We've noticed the change in Purity as well as all of the fragrances & bath. A few years ago, I would have tried any new product. They no longer have that trust. It's a company that seem to have lost their way, which I guess means they lost the vision that Christina started.

belleandme1349185081.6438642 PostsRegistered 7/13/2009southern illinois
On 10/1/2012 Abby Grace said:

We've noticed the change in Purity as well as all of the fragrances & bath. A few years ago, I would have tried any new product. They no longer have that trust. It's a company that seem to have lost their way, which I guess means they lost the vision that Christina started.

{#emotions_dlg.thumbup1}

FOUR BLOOD MOONS~~john hagee

"...There will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars...Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Luke 21:25a, 28

belleandme1349187224.4838642 PostsRegistered 7/13/2009southern illinois
On 10/1/2012 Mona Dahl said:
Last edited on 10/3/2012

Last edited on 10/3/2012

FOUR BLOOD MOONS~~john hagee

"...There will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars...Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Luke 21:25a, 28

belleandme1349187225.9078642 PostsRegistered 7/13/2009southern illinois
On 10/1/2012 Mona Dahl said:
Last edited on 10/3/2012

Last edited on 10/3/2012

FOUR BLOOD MOONS~~john hagee

"...There will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars...Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Luke 21:25a, 28

belleandme1349187227.278642 PostsRegistered 7/13/2009southern illinois
On 10/1/2012 Mona Dahl said:
Last edited on 10/3/2012

Last edited on 10/3/2012

FOUR BLOOD MOONS~~john hagee

"...There will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars...Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Luke 21:25a, 28

belleandme1349187228.8538642 PostsRegistered 7/13/2009southern illinois
On 10/1/2012 {#emotions_dlg.blink}Mona Dahl said:
Last edited on 10/2/2012

Last edited on 10/2/2012

FOUR BLOOD MOONS~~john hagee

"...There will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars...Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Luke 21:25a, 28

belleandme1349187230.3438642 PostsRegistered 7/13/2009southern illinois
On 10/1/2012 Mona Dahl said:

Belleandme's description of what has changed in Philosophy was absolutely fabulous! I agree wholeheartedly.

For me, the biggest and most troubling difference is that mediocre products are being put out left and right, instead of just a few, extremely innovative "game changers" that you could count on to change both your beauty routine and your life. Cristina Carlino was not only a perfectionist when it came to the standards of a product, but also a real maverick when it came to designing "square peg" products that didn't fall neatly into the old categories. That is why we have things like Amazing Grace, the Supernatural Poreless Flawless, Purity, The Present...and formerly the (awesome!) Supernatural Mascara and the Superbeautiful Hybrid Makeup. Cristina defied the norms of the industry with her unique, multitasking products--in fact, she insisted on it, saying she would not market a product unles it would turn the whole category on its head. She also insisted that every Philosophy product be good for sensitive and acne-prone skin, and pleasing in terms of fragrance and aesthetics. (Not all of these were true for everyone, but at least she tried.)

And yes, the line was limited to just a few dozen excellent products...and it really worked. It went with Philosophy's aesthetic of simplicity and a pared-down, manageable routine. Now, new products and lines are being released every minute or two. The fragrances have exploded from just three graces and FIL to 7 Graces, 4 Loves, Divine, and then the semi-fine fragrance category which includes Field of Flowers, Apricots and Cream, Fresh Cream, Be Somebody, Be Somebody Water Lily, etc., etc. Skincare went from being the basic Hope line plus When Hope is Not Enough to, now, the Hope line, the Oxygen line, the Keep the Peace line, the On A Clear Day line, the Miracle Worker Line, the When Hope Is Not Enough line, and the Full of Promises line. Makeup went from just a few Supernatural products to the Supernatural/Color of Grace ranges (which were actually good, IMO) and, most recently, the atrocious Divine Color line. So basically, Philosophy has become a mess. Worst of all, many of the new products seem designed to fit in to the "conventional" market, with an eye toward raising prices to be in line with other prestige brands. It is just the opposite of what Philosophy used to be about.

The other things that have changed are customer service--for awhile, it seemed like Coty/Philosophy really were not listening to our concerns, what with deleting negative Facebook posts, calling the fragrance changes a "rumor," and attempting to censor the QVC boards. Recently, that has turned around...but it is too early to tell if it will last. Pre-Coty, Philosophy had a lot of "goodwill" value that contributed greatly to the high price Coty paid to buy it. Upon the Coty acquisition, they quickly lost a lot of that "goodwill" value, and we could really see why.

Other new problems are quality control (especially for the fragrance products such as 3-in-1s, lotions, and sprays), and, of course, the FORMULA CHANGES. Most of us notice the biggest change in Amazing Grace, although other products (Purity, other fragrances) seem to have changed too. These changes are devastating to some of the loyal users. Until now, Philosophy had been denying that any change had been made. Now they seem to be trying to investigate what happened.

Obviously Philosophy has taken a big hit from Coty's changes. The value of the company went down a LOT--I want to say a quarter of a billion dollars, but that sounds like too much. (It was sold for a billion dollars and I seem to remember hearing it lost a quarter of its value.) In my Sephora, Philosophy went from having a big stand for bath + body plus a wall of skincare, to having a tiny bath and body shelf at the back of the store. Others have also mentioned that their Sephora, Nordstrom, and Ulta Philosophy sections have grown smaller. To compensate for this loss, Philosophy is raising prices on the staples that are still popular....and rolling out tons of new products to see what sticks (just like Belleandme said). Terrible idea, Philosophy. What you need is more editing, more care all around, and a return to the original brand vision. In short, what you need is Cristina.

Last edited on 10/1/2012

mona dahl, that was super well written and concise!! and not to sound too much like a mutual appreciation society, lol, i couldnt have said it better!!

i have seen it so many times in businesses both large and small. they get a good thing going , then they either fizzel out, or get greedy. in this case, it know it just became too labor intensive for christina. she , like me, just has the one child, and something about knowing that that one kid is the whole enchilada, just makes you take things in perspective.

but that cant stop us fans, grateful for her vision, from missing her.

and i know i am repeating myself, but another thing, is the foodie scents. except for a few other vendors who had vanilla or chocolate inspired scents, christina really launched the whole foodie shower gel thing. at the time, it was risque, out of the box, and almost crazy! but it found a niche with busy women who wanted some luxurious fun back and only had a few minutes to do it in. i had just had belle at the time. and the shower was the whole beauty routine:

thats when i transitioned to washing my body with my shampoo (3-1), exfoiliated in the shower (that was my whole beauty treatment-mdew),or i used purity in the shower, that was my moisturizer. or if i was really dry the great mystery duo (yes there was a sugar and oil companion that christina said to layer and it was awesome!!) boom--one minute and done. for makeup it was the airbrushed or poreless flawless, my lip makeover with the supernatural glosses (took 10 years off my look), supernatural mascara, that didnt come off in a big puddle, and still hung in through late night nursings when i never made it to the bathroom. a little ag or bg and that was my WHOLE WORLD OF BEAUTY AT THE TIME.

one stop shopping , only a few steps, great results, no overkill. loved it.

but back to the foodie thing. thats where things started going awry. people loved the foodies. they were a huge hit. and then a couple of us sick freaks, started saying "HEY WAIT A MINUTE, I DOOOOO WANT TO TAKE THIS OUT OF THE SHOWER!! i DONT WANT IT TO RINSE DOWN THE DRAIN!!"

now the next part is my own theory, but, christina just couldnt handle having the scents linger further than the shower, but she made the concession to make a few lotions with the foodie scents. that was her big allowance to us. but we wanted more......

hence the collection of all these lotion/3-1 duo's. that blew the company out of the water in my opinion. it exploded over night. all the foodie girls were now buying lotions to go with everything too. hence twice the sales. but...........just when we were on the verge of getting spritzes in the scents---massive recession and we came face to face with our hoarded collections, and simultaneously, chritina became burnt out , and the rest snowballed downward as fast as it snowballed upward.

i just dont think christina could handle the spray version of the 3-1's it was counter her personal taste, but WE WANTED IT. SO NOW COTY HAS THE CHALLENGE of coming to a resolution of either going back to the christina formula (both literal and figurative), and/ or listening to the whims of the new philosophy girls. of which there are many who have completely different expectations, but their cash spends as well.

i was going to wrap this up better, lol, but dh and dd just came in with their pumpkin cream cheese toast breath, lol, and now i am totally distracted. plus, alas, i cannot put off the dreaded math book with belle forever.........though i do tryWink ugg, i am on my 4th math program with her this year, and we still havent found a good match. but that is another rant, lol,

maybe i can finish this better later,

have a great day!!

belleandme

Last edited on 10/2/2012

Last edited on 10/2/2012

FOUR BLOOD MOONS~~john hagee

"...There will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars...Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Luke 21:25a, 28

ARMYGIRL68X1349188855.943545 PostsRegistered 6/19/2012TX
On 10/2/2012 belleandme said:
On 10/1/2012 Mona Dahl said:

Belleandme's description of what has changed in Philosophy was absolutely fabulous! I agree wholeheartedly.

For me, the biggest and most troubling difference is that mediocre products are being put out left and right, instead of just a few, extremely innovative "game changers" that you could count on to change both your beauty routine and your life. Cristina Carlino was not only a perfectionist when it came to the standards of a product, but also a real maverick when it came to designing "square peg" products that didn't fall neatly into the old categories. That is why we have things like Amazing Grace, the Supernatural Poreless Flawless, Purity, The Present...and formerly the (awesome!) Supernatural Mascara and the Superbeautiful Hybrid Makeup. Cristina defied the norms of the industry with her unique, multitasking products--in fact, she insisted on it, saying she would not market a product unles it would turn the whole category on its head. She also insisted that every Philosophy product be good for sensitive and acne-prone skin, and pleasing in terms of fragrance and aesthetics. (Not all of these were true for everyone, but at least she tried.)

And yes, the line was limited to just a few dozen excellent products...and it really worked. It went with Philosophy's aesthetic of simplicity and a pared-down, manageable routine. Now, new products and lines are being released every minute or two. The fragrances have exploded from just three graces and FIL to 7 Graces, 4 Loves, Divine, and then the semi-fine fragrance category which includes Field of Flowers, Apricots and Cream, Fresh Cream, Be Somebody, Be Somebody Water Lily, etc., etc. Skincare went from being the basic Hope line plus When Hope is Not Enough to, now, the Hope line, the Oxygen line, the Keep the Peace line, the On A Clear Day line, the Miracle Worker Line, the When Hope Is Not Enough line, and the Full of Promises line. Makeup went from just a few Supernatural products to the Supernatural/Color of Grace ranges (which were actually good, IMO) and, most recently, the atrocious Divine Color line. So basically, Philosophy has become a mess. Worst of all, many of the new products seem designed to fit in to the "conventional" market, with an eye toward raising prices to be in line with other prestige brands. It is just the opposite of what Philosophy used to be about.

The other things that have changed are customer service--for awhile, it seemed like Coty/Philosophy really were not listening to our concerns, what with deleting negative Facebook posts, calling the fragrance changes a "rumor," and attempting to censor the QVC boards. Recently, that has turned around...but it is too early to tell if it will last. Pre-Coty, Philosophy had a lot of "goodwill" value that contributed greatly to the high price Coty paid to buy it. Upon the Coty acquisition, they quickly lost a lot of that "goodwill" value, and we could really see why.

Other new problems are quality control (especially for the fragrance products such as 3-in-1s, lotions, and sprays), and, of course, the FORMULA CHANGES. Most of us notice the biggest change in Amazing Grace, although other products (Purity, other fragrances) seem to have changed too. These changes are devastating to some of the loyal users. Until now, Philosophy had been denying that any change had been made. Now they seem to be trying to investigate what happened.

Obviously Philosophy has taken a big hit from Coty's changes. The value of the company went down a LOT--I want to say a quarter of a billion dollars, but that sounds like too much. (It was sold for a billion dollars and I seem to remember hearing it lost a quarter of its value.) In my Sephora, Philosophy went from having a big stand for bath + body plus a wall of skincare, to having a tiny bath and body shelf at the back of the store. Others have also mentioned that their Sephora, Nordstrom, and Ulta Philosophy sections have grown smaller. To compensate for this loss, Philosophy is raising prices on the staples that are still popular....and rolling out tons of new products to see what sticks (just like Belleandme said). Terrible idea, Philosophy. What you need is more editing, more care all around, and a return to the original brand vision. In short, what you need is Cristina.

Last edited on 10/1/2012

mona dahl, that was super well written and concise!! and not to sound too much like a mutual appreciation society, lol, i couldnt have said it better!!

i have seen it so many times in businesses both large and small. they get a good thing going , then they either fizzel out, or get greedy. in this case, it know it just became too labor intensive for christina. she , like me, just has the one child, and something about knowing that that one kid is the whole enchilada, just makes you take things in perspective.

but that cant stop us fans, grateful for her vision, from missing her.

and i know i am repeating myself, but another thing, is the foodie scents. except for a few other vendors who had vanilla or chocolate inspired scents, christina really launched the whole foodie shower gel thing. at the time, it was risque, out of the box, and almost crazy! but it found a niche with busy women who wanted some luxurious fun back and only had a few minutes to do it in. i had just had belle at the time. and the shower was the whole beauty routine:

thats when i transitioned to washing my body with my shampoo (3-1), exfoiliated in the shower (that was my whole beauty treatment-mdew),or i used purity in the shower, that was my moisturizer. or if i was really dry the great mystery duo (yes there was a sugar and oil companion that christina said to layer and it was awesome!!) boom--one minute and done. for makeup it was the airbrushed or poreless flawless, my lip makeover with the supernatural glosses (took 10 years off my look), supernatural mascara, that didnt come off in a big puddle, and still hung in through late night nursings when i never made it to the bathroom. a little ag or bg and that was my WHOLE WORLD OF BEAUTY AT THE TIME.

one stop shopping , only a few steps, great results, no overkill. loved it.

but back to the foodie thing. thats where things started going awry. people loved the foodies. they were a huge hit. and then a couple of us sick freaks, started saying "HEY WAIT A MINUTE, I DOOOOO WANT TO TAKE THIS OUT OF THE SHOWER!! i DONT WANT IT TO RINSE DOWN THE DRAIN!!"

now the next part is my own theory, but, christina just couldnt handle having the scents linger further than the shower, but she made the concession to make a few lotions with the foodie scents. that was her big allowance to us. but we wanted more......

hence the collection of all these lotion/3-1 duo's. that blew the company out of the water in my opinion. it exploded over night. all the foodie girls were now buying lotions to go with everything too. hence twice the sales. but...........just when we were on the verge of getting spritzes in the scents---massive recession and we came face to face with our hoarded collections, and simultaneously, chritina became burnt out , and the rest snowballed downward as fast as it snowballed upward.

i just dont think christina could handle the spray version of the 3-1's it was counter her personal taste, but WE WANTED IT. SO NOW COTY HAS THE CHALLENGE of coming to a resolution of either going back to the christina formula (both literal and figurative), and/ or listening to the whims of the new philosophy girls. of which there are many who have completely different expectations, but their cash spends as well.

i was going to wrap this up better, lol, but dh and dd just came in with their pumpkin cream cheese toast breath, lol, and now i am totally distracted. plus, alas, i cannot put off the dreaded math book with belle forever.........though i do tryWink ugg, i am on my 4th math program with her this year, and we still havent found a good match. but that is another rant, lol,

maybe i can finish this better later,

have a great day!!

belleandme

Last edited on 10/2/2012

Yep. Seems like things were blown out of proportion.

Though, I'd actually like if the 3-in-1 scents were to linger a bit more. I have introduced several people to Philosophy, and have friends who have enjoyed it for longer than I have, and one complaint I hear all the time is that they could not smell the scent post-shower. I understand that some people don't want to go around all day smelling like food, but I personally would appreciate if some of the scents could last longer.

I find that some of the lotions don't linger either, especially the Rainbow Sherbet. I'll put it on and within an hour, I can't smell it any longer. The FOFC, on the other hand, has a long-lasting scent. Even though my particular bottle is very greasy, I'll put it on and it'll last throughout the day until I shower. Same goes for the AG and the LSL.

As I said on my other post, I wish that they would come out with some body sprays. IMO, there would be nothing better than spritzing some PFAC spray throughout the day.

Which brings me to another question... are the foodie body souffles found on Amazon authentic? I was on Amazon about a month ago and saw that a vendor carried a number of different souffles in scents like Strawberry Milkshake, Powdered Sugar Cookie, Raspberry Sorbet, Frozen Lemon Custard, etc. but I have never seen these featured in any store or website that carries Philosophy products.

Army Strong - Hooah!

21 y/o. Short, black hair. Tan skin. Brown eyes. I love Philosophy!

i like cel­ery1349203946.0334937 PostsRegistered 6/23/2010

The body souffles on Amazon are super old. Phil discontinued them awhile ago. There was a Melting Marshmallow souffle 3 or 4 years ago, but it was packaged in a tube. I think that was the most recent souffle. There was also a GBM souffle packaged in a jar that was offered around 3 years ago, too.


Life is beauty full.



ARMYGIRL68X1349204281.563545 PostsRegistered 6/19/2012TX
On 10/2/2012 i like celery said:

The body souffles on Amazon are super old. Phil discontinued them awhile ago. There was a Melting Marshmallow souffle 3 or 4 years ago, but it was packaged in a tube. I think that was the most recent souffle. There was also a GBM souffle packaged in a jar that was offered around 3 years ago, too.

Thanks for the info. When I saw them, I actually purchased one. They're around $15 for a 3.5 oz souffle, which is outrageously expensive IMO, but I wanted to try it out. I then cancelled my order because I changed my mind about the price. I'm glad that I did, now knowing that they're old.

Army Strong - Hooah!

21 y/o. Short, black hair. Tan skin. Brown eyes. I love Philosophy!

belleandme1349204578.428642 PostsRegistered 7/13/2009southern illinois

yes armygirl they are real, but......they are from at least 4-5 years ago. i just used a sample of choc. covered strawberry that i have had for AGES , and it was o k ish~~~~~but i wouldnt want a tub of it!!!

the lemon custard was so fab!

i am sorry my posts exploded on your thread, i dont know what happened, and now it wont let me delete or edit them. grrrrrr.

the whole thing with the 3-1 formula is that christina WANTED them to wash away, because when they were new, no one wanted to smell like a pumpkin spice muffin all day. plus, she didnt want it to clash with the perfumes. she was a self expressed perfume disliker until she developed her own--which i know you dont love, but just wanted to let you know the rationale behind it.

i wrote a thread on this regarding the evolution of our noses and tastes pertaining to the foodie scents, and how now we are using it for ourselves and want to keep smelling it all day.

they shouild have a limited edition spritz available for those who want it when they release a great foodie scent, like fresh cream, or crispy marshmallow bars etc. alas.

so rather than bending they decided to break, i guess. which is a bummer. hit the summit of my frustration with this last summer (2012) and went on a philosophy fast where i didnt use it for almost three months, just to wean myself off of my dependence on it as my only bath experience. and my frustration that the things were taking a different path. now i am very ambivalent regarding what they do or dont do, and just enjoy what i can, as clearly they are not going to drive the train anywhere but their own station!!

if you find it , and you like it, buy it, because the direction of the future could be literally anywhere~!!

take care,

belleandme

FOUR BLOOD MOONS~~john hagee

"...There will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars...Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Luke 21:25a, 28

Mona Dahl1349206656.642201 PostsRegistered 3/29/2007

Belleandme,

Wonderful, perceptive points as always. I had never considered that the foodie lotion/spritzes debate could have contributed to the downfall of Philosophy, but I think you could have a point there. And the recession...definitely! I always seem to overlook that part, but obviously it was a huge contributor.

Which thread did you start about the evolution of our tastes re: foodie shower gels? As a non-foodie girl, I'd be very interested to read it. I always feel like a black sheep around here because I just can't get into having food scents in my shower...it might have something to do with my past problems with compulsive eating. I don't know. I did use them when I was on a 40-day juice fast and they were a Godsend at the time, but now as always, my idea of bliss is a hot shower with Grace in it.

However, I believe in giving the Philosophy girls what they want...After all, it's really the Philosophy girls, not Cristina or anybody else, who define the brand and make it what it is. And if the Philosophy girls want full foodie lineups, they should have them! In my opinion there is nothing distasteful about smelling delicious.

Risk more than others think is safe,

Care more than others think is wise,

Dream more than others think is practical,

Expect more than others think is possible.

bikerbabe1349208879.88331 PostsRegistered 4/10/2007

that melting marshmallow was one of the gross icky sticky lotions. and smelled more like hot cocoa than marshmallow.

I take pleasure in my 'transformations'. I look quiet and consistent, but few know how many women there are in me.
- Anais Nin

i like cel­ery1349210764.5634937 PostsRegistered 6/23/2010

I thought all of the souffles were sticky. :-( Yep, the Melting Marshmallow had more of a chocolate scent. It was too sweet for me.


Life is beauty full.



ARMYGIRL68X1349215287.373545 PostsRegistered 6/19/2012TX
On 10/2/2012 Mona Dahl said:

Belleandme,

Wonderful, perceptive points as always. I had never considered that the foodie lotion/spritzes debate could have contributed to the downfall of Philosophy, but I think you could have a point there. And the recession...definitely! I always seem to overlook that part, but obviously it was a huge contributor.

Which thread did you start about the evolution of our tastes re: foodie shower gels? As a non-foodie girl, I'd be very interested to read it. I always feel like a black sheep around here because I just can't get into having food scents in my shower...it might have something to do with my past problems with compulsive eating. I don't know. I did use them when I was on a 40-day juice fast and they were a Godsend at the time, but now as always, my idea of bliss is a hot shower with Grace in it.

However, I believe in giving the Philosophy girls what they want...After all, it's really the Philosophy girls, not Cristina or anybody else, who define the brand and make it what it is. And if the Philosophy girls want full foodie lineups, they should have them! In my opinion there is nothing distasteful about smelling delicious.

Very well put.

Some people just aren't into the bakery scents. My cousin is also a huge Philosophy fan, but she doesn't like any kind of bath/body product that smells like food. She's more into the Graces and the Loves and the products like that. I guess it just depends on people's senses and preferences.

Army Strong - Hooah!

21 y/o. Short, black hair. Tan skin. Brown eyes. I love Philosophy!

BlondeBarbs1349215422.70337 PostsRegistered 10/26/2010NJ
On 9/30/2012 belleandme said:

.

morning armygirl!

well the biggest thing i notice is the companies schizophrenia!! lol! when the original developer christina was in charge, she made very few products, but each one had a distinct personality and packed a pretty good whammy in regards to effectiveness.

then she sold it to the carlyle group (sp?). there were subtle changes, but christina still popped her head in occasionally to talk about the products and it wasnt soooo bad.........

but since coty took over, it seems that there was a product frenzy, with no listening to customer requests, while throwing dozens of products out there to see what sticks so to speak.

i mean just start with the makeup, lets call it wc, and woc (with and with out christina), wc, there were very few makeup products but each one was a 'game changer' as she used to say. woc, the makeup has been through many incarnations with wildly disparate reviews. i myself, will not buy anything out now, except the divine illumination powder, until further improvements are made.

i have been using phil. since it came to the q. about 8-10 years (anyone remember??). they used to send out a little pamphlet with their stuff, and it explained the other stuff that was available. well, it had like 25 items. they were all multi-tasking, simple , easy to use high performance items!!! game changers.

now put phil in the search engine, and what like 348 items come up , or more??? which is fine if they are all good, but not so much if the quality is going out the window. which i am not claiming it has, yet, but there are very big concerns.

also, when phil became popular on the q, they would have lots of decent specials, and oto's like a 3-1 uber for 14.99 with no shipping.

thats another thing, they have gotten rid of all the large size bottles. bummer. at least for me, some only like the 16 ounce or smaller.

i know i am rambling, but literally you could combine at least 10 major threads on here and come up with a small book relating to this topic.

it all started when we began noticing an ingredient switch in the purity. it would have been one thing if they would have come out and said , "yo, we 'improved' the formula on the purity, deal with it", but not there was a bunch of cloak and dagger drama and people started wondering if phil could be trusted. it was like finding out there was no easter bunny.

then of course the grace changes, etc, yadda yadda yadda, and stuff is just not the same. its like the difference between how a doting mother dresses her child to go somewhere, versus how the dad lets the kid leave the house. except in this case, its like the parents let the kids stay home with drunk uncle larry, and he is passed out on the couch and the kids are running around in the street at dusk......................

then you find out the parents are stuck in a crate on a ship headed for south america and as the camera pans the horizion you wonder if the parents will ever make it home again. and who is going to tell little bobby and suzi......................................................................

so, that is my early morning rundown . see what danger can happen while i am waiting for the coffee to brew!!{#emotions_dlg.rolleyes}

take care, and i hope you get some less melodramatic answers!!, lol!

belleandme

Let me just say that I rarely post but felt the need to peak my head out for this-that was the best response I have ever read...thanks for the much needed laugh :)

Barbs

http://mindofabeautyaddict.blogspot.com/

belleandme1349268445.2978642 PostsRegistered 7/13/2009southern illinois
On 10/2/2012 BlondeBarbs said:
On 9/30/2012 belleandme said:

.

morning armygirl!

well the biggest thing i notice is the companies schizophrenia!! lol! when the original developer christina was in charge, she made very few products, but each one had a distinct personality and packed a pretty good whammy in regards to effectiveness.

then she sold it to the carlyle group (sp?). there were subtle changes, but christina still popped her head in occasionally to talk about the products and it wasnt soooo bad.........

but since coty took over, it seems that there was a product frenzy, with no listening to customer requests, while throwing dozens of products out there to see what sticks so to speak.

i mean just start with the makeup, lets call it wc, and woc (with and with out christina), wc, there were very few makeup products but each one was a 'game changer' as she used to say. woc, the makeup has been through many incarnations with wildly disparate reviews. i myself, will not buy anything out now, except the divine illumination powder, until further improvements are made.

i have been using phil. since it came to the q. about 8-10 years (anyone remember??). they used to send out a little pamphlet with their stuff, and it explained the other stuff that was available. well, it had like 25 items. they were all multi-tasking, simple , easy to use high performance items!!! game changers.

now put phil in the search engine, and what like 348 items come up , or more??? which is fine if they are all good, but not so much if the quality is going out the window. which i am not claiming it has, yet, but there are very big concerns.

also, when phil became popular on the q, they would have lots of decent specials, and oto's like a 3-1 uber for 14.99 with no shipping.

thats another thing, they have gotten rid of all the large size bottles. bummer. at least for me, some only like the 16 ounce or smaller.

i know i am rambling, but literally you could combine at least 10 major threads on here and come up with a small book relating to this topic.

it all started when we began noticing an ingredient switch in the purity. it would have been one thing if they would have come out and said , "yo, we 'improved' the formula on the purity, deal with it", but not there was a bunch of cloak and dagger drama and people started wondering if phil could be trusted. it was like finding out there was no easter bunny.

then of course the grace changes, etc, yadda yadda yadda, and stuff is just not the same. its like the difference between how a doting mother dresses her child to go somewhere, versus how the dad lets the kid leave the house. except in this case, its like the parents let the kids stay home with drunk uncle larry, and he is passed out on the couch and the kids are running around in the street at dusk......................

then you find out the parents are stuck in a crate on a ship headed for south america and as the camera pans the horizion you wonder if the parents will ever make it home again. and who is going to tell little bobby and suzi......................................................................

so, that is my early morning rundown . see what danger can happen while i am waiting for the coffee to brew!!{#emotions_dlg.rolleyes}

take care, and i hope you get some less melodramatic answers!!, lol!

belleandme

Let me just say that I rarely post but felt the need to peak my head out for this-that was the best response I have ever read...thanks for the much needed laugh :)

Smilethat is nice, thanks!!

FOUR BLOOD MOONS~~john hagee

"...There will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars...Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Luke 21:25a, 28

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