Need Answer to Question About Smart Phone Apps!

Madisson · ‎10-13-2011

Hi...I'm a low-tech person, but I have a question about smart phone apps. I know people can scan or photocopy a check and deposit it into their bank account. Can they also scan or photocopy a check to use it to pay for items online at a retail store?

We are having problems because my 90 year old mother's checking account was hacked. The hacker got $2,000, but the bank refunded that to us while they do a fraud investigation. Now we found a check that has been used twice (the same exact number on the check). We have a duplicate copy of the check that we used ourselves. However, someone wrote a check for almost $100 to a retail store using the same check number. Could someone who had access to my mother's checks have photocopied or scanned a check in to this retail store to pay for purchases? The odd thing is that the check was used at a store in the county we live in.

We have closed out that checking account now and opened a new one, but we are still looking for answers. Obviously, I have someone in mind who possibly could have done this, but I don't even know if it is possible to do. The bank is doing another dispute and fraud investigation on this also.

Thanks for any help!

Some people do drugs. I do shoes....Celine Dion

Lynnj · ‎03-21-2010

No, there are no apps that act as a purchasing agent for stores, in the way you described where you would take a pic of a check for purposes of payment to a store. Typically payments made through an app for a service or product are all made by debit or credit card. Some smart phones have chips inside the phone, and the chips work with equipment at the register of a store. You can tap your phone to the equipment, and a payment is made. But again, this is nothing involving a check. It's all done through credit or debit cards stored in the phone. I suggest you have the bank send a photo copy of both checks (the one you say is written on the same number) and you can look at the handwriting on front and back of the check.

Caffeina · ‎03-09-2010

All someone needs is the routing number, account number, and the right printer, and they can make counterfeit checks.

glb613 · ‎03-09-2010

On 10/10/2014 Caffeina said:
All someone needs is the routing number, account number, and the right printer, and they can make counterfeit checks.

They don't need to make a paper check to do this. Where did she write a legitimate check using that number?

Madisson · ‎10-13-2011

On 10/11/2014 glb613 said:
On 10/10/2014 Caffeina said:
All someone needs is the routing number, account number, and the right printer, and they can make counterfeit checks.

They don't need to make a paper check to do this. Where did she write a legitimate check using that number?

I'm curious by your statement that they do not need a paper check to do this. How would they do it without a paper check? The check was written to a Walgreens store. It was listed on the bank statement as "POP (Point of Purchase) Walgreens ACH Withdrawal."

When checks are listed as POP ACH Withdrawal, the bank does not have or show a copy of the check. When checks are listed as "Regular Check" or "OTC Check" on the statement, the bank shows a copy of the check.

Some people do drugs. I do shoes....Celine Dion

Caffeina · ‎03-09-2010

This could be done with a counterfeit or photocopied check.

"ACH Point-of-Purchase (POP) Check Conversion

Consumers continue to write checks at the time of purchase and processing these checks costs you time and money. With ACH Point-of-Purchase (POP) Check Conversion Service, eligible consumer checks are converted to ACH transactions at the time of the sale, so you can significantly reduce back-office labor costs, check deposit preparation and handling costs and check clearing fees.

A customer writes a check for a purchase at your business, where it is scanned using a magnetic ink character recognition (MICR) reader to capture check details. The payment amount and the payee name are either keyed or inserted by the reader at the time of purchase. After the customer signs a written authorization, the check is voided and returned to the customer with a copy of the signed receipt. Eligible transactions pass through the ACH system and a record of payment appears on the customer's bank statement."

www.jpmorgan.com/tss/General/ACH_Point-of-Purchase_POP_Check_Conversion/1102380198231

Madisson · ‎10-13-2011

On 10/11/2014 Caffeina said:
This could be done with a counterfeit or photocopied check.

"ACH Point-of-Purchase (POP) Check Conversion

Consumers continue to write checks at the time of purchase and processing these checks costs you time and money. With ACH Point-of-Purchase (POP) Check Conversion Service, eligible consumer checks are converted to ACH transactions at the time of the sale, so you can significantly reduce back-office labor costs, check deposit preparation and handling costs and check clearing fees.

A customer writes a check for a purchase at your business, where it is scanned using a magnetic ink character recognition (MICR) reader to capture check details. The payment amount and the payee name are either keyed or inserted by the reader at the time of purchase. After the customer signs a written authorization, the check is voided and returned to the customer with a copy of the signed receipt. Eligible transactions pass through the ACH system and a record of payment appears on the customer's bank statement."

www.jpmorgan.com/tss/General/ACH_Point-of-Purchase_POP_Check_Conversion/1102380198231

Thank you, Caffeina. I did not realize that photocopying could be that sophisticated.

Some people do drugs. I do shoes....Celine Dion

Madisson · ‎10-13-2011

Lynnj and glb613, thank you for your input. It's amazing what crooks can do with all this high tech equipment.

Some people do drugs. I do shoes....Celine Dion

Lynnj · ‎03-21-2010

On 10/11/2014 Madisson said:
On 10/11/2014 glb613 said:
On 10/10/2014 Caffeina said:
All someone needs is the routing number, account number, and the right printer, and they can make counterfeit checks.

They don't need to make a paper check to do this. Where did she write a legitimate check using that number?

I'm curious by your statement that they do not need a paper check to do this. How would they do it without a paper check? The check was written to a Walgreens store. It was listed on the bank statement as "POP (Point of Purchase) Walgreens ACH Withdrawal."

When checks are listed as POP ACH Withdrawal, the bank does not have or show a copy of the check. When checks are listed as "Regular Check" or "OTC Check" on the statement, the bank shows a copy of the check.

Like another poster said all that's needed is the account number and routing number. Both of which are in plain view on any check. Once you have this, you can make up any check number and tell someone that number for a check payment. When stores take a physical check as a payment, there is no verification system in place that checks that number against all sequenced check numbers on a persons account. Nothing really happens until the check is deposited at the stores bank account, goes through Central Bank Processing, and eventually applied to the account that the check was drawn from. A check is a promissory note to pay, all on a written piece of paper. Nothing actually happens until the check is presented to the payee account for processing, and there a many stops along the way to get there. Often crooks are long gone by the time a check is fully verified. There is risk involved for the party that accepts that as a form of payment, as well as the party that initiates this as a form of payment.

Madisson · ‎10-13-2011

On 10/11/2014 Lynnj said:
On 10/11/2014 Madisson said:
On 10/11/2014 glb613 said:
On 10/10/2014 Caffeina said:
All someone needs is the routing number, account number, and the right printer, and they can make counterfeit checks.

They don't need to make a paper check to do this. Where did she write a legitimate check using that number?

I'm curious by your statement that they do not need a paper check to do this. How would they do it without a paper check? The check was written to a Walgreens store. It was listed on the bank statement as "POP (Point of Purchase) Walgreens ACH Withdrawal."

When checks are listed as POP ACH Withdrawal, the bank does not have or show a copy of the check. When checks are listed as "Regular Check" or "OTC Check" on the statement, the bank shows a copy of the check.

Like another poster said all that's needed is the account number and routing number. Both of which are in plain view on any check. Once you have this, you can make up any check number and tell someone that number for a check payment. When stores take a physical check as a payment, there is no verification system in place that checks that number against all sequenced check numbers on a persons account. Nothing really happens until the check is deposited at the stores bank account, goes through Central Bank Processing, and eventually applied to the account that the check was drawn from. A check is a promissory note to pay, all on a written piece of paper. Nothing actually happens until the check is presented to the payee account for processing, and there a many stops along the way to get there. Often crooks are long gone by the time a check is fully verified. There is risk involved for the party that accepts that as a form of payment, as well as the party that initiates this as a form of payment.