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Help... I have blue and green veins am I warm or cool undertone?

Started 1271003221.58 in Beauty Banter | Last reply 1271038520.263 by Woodsy Woman

Good Morning !!!

I have always had a horrible time trying to find the right foundation ugh.  I had read about looking at the color of your veins and I have blue and green.  I even asked my son and he said the same thing, so now I'm confused whether I'm warm or cool.

Do you have any suggestions ?  Thanks so much and have a wonderful Sunday.

~~ The world is a wonderful place and everyone should shut up and enjoy it every once in a while. ~~

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sommertime1271003890.99731235 PostsRegistered 10/6/2004

I have never heard of the color of your veins method, probably most are blue/green.

Take a look at the under-side of your wrist and palm, if your hue is olive/yellow undertones then you are warm, if the hue is pink then you are cool. Hope this helps and you find the right shade!{#emotions_dlg.thumbup1}

bljed1271004133.087183 PostsRegistered 1/29/2008

My best guess is that you are a "neutral".  Its nice because you probably look good in a wider variety of shades as opposed to people who are very cool or warm.  If you're looking for foundation I'd look at 'neutral' shades and shades that have a bit of yellow to them.  I'd avoid pink based ones.

csv3201271004136.0076724 PostsRegistered 6/24/2007
On 4/11/2010 sommertime said:

I have never heard of the color of your veins method, probably most are blue/green.

Take a look at the under-side of your wrist and palm, if your hue is olive/yellow undertones then you are warm, if the hue is pink then you are cool. Hope this helps and you find the right shade!{#emotions_dlg.thumbup1}

I'm not sure about the wrist thing. A really easy way to do it is, go to a window with natural light with a mirror -- put a white blouse next to your face. Now put a cream colored blouse next to your face. If you look better in the white blouse you are cool. If you look better in the cream color or off white blouse, then you are warm. You might need an "assistant" to help you decide if white or off white is your best color.

irishwoman1271004580.0472168 PostsRegistered 3/23/2006

i too have some trouble with all this color thing..

but, first, whats your eye color, hair color, do you have freckels?

do you tan easy?? do you burn easy?? theres lots of things to consider..

i can speek for myself, i have blue/grey eyes,fair skin,and some freckels,golden blond hair thats highlighted that way,i look good in a little warmer colors myself.not to bright, but not dull..

i would say softer colors look better on me, but iam 60, and just feel better in them..

iam always kinda on the fence about cool/warm thing, i dont look good in some colors..

look into your closet. see what the main catgorie your cloths are???

do you have mainly,warm tones,or cool tones. hanging in there??

to me, theres alot more to it than just looking at your viens in your wrist..

get some fabric,a large mirrow, and set in front of a window in natural light, then hold some gold frabric next to your face, and see how you look, them do the same with silver..

i hope this has helped in some way??

bren

 

\

 

 

csv3201271005273.3636724 PostsRegistered 6/24/2007

ps another sure fire way to know if you are warm or cool, what color do you wear and people all day say: wow! you look fantastic. or: wow! that is "your color". Easiest way to know!

When I wear royal blue or purple, people stop me all day and compliment me. 

 

Funloving1271007013.9138108 PostsRegistered 3/4/2007

I have the same confusion with this warm/cool thing.   By all I've learned I'd be typically a warm-tone with light golden blonde hair (but that's from my hairdresser) and medium yellow undertones to my skin.  Eyes are blue and turn green.

I pick optic white over cream, black over brown.. the only colors I'm always complimented on is that strange light violet/pink color- very cool... and olive green- which is warm.  Go figure.Cool

-By grace alone through faith alone-

Woodsy Wom­an1271007491.8374227 PostsRegistered 8/27/2007
On 4/11/2010 irishwoman said:

i too have some trouble with all this color thing..

but, first, whats your eye color, hair color, do you have freckels?

do you tan easy?? do you burn easy?? theres lots of things to consider..

i can speek for myself, i have blue/grey eyes,fair skin,and some freckels,golden blond hair thats highlighted that way,i look good in a little warmer colors myself.not to bright, but not dull..

i would say softer colors look better on me, but iam 60, and just feel better in them..

iam always kinda on the fence about cool/warm thing, i dont look good in some colors..

look into your closet. see what the main catgorie your cloths are???

do you have mainly,warm tones,or cool tones. hanging in there??

to me, theres alot more to it than just looking at your viens in your wrist..

get some fabric,a large mirrow, and set in front of a window in natural light, then hold some gold frabric next to your face, and see how you look, them do the same with silver..

i hope this has helped in some way??

bren

 

\

 

 

Hi Girls,

Thank you for all the great info, I am a TOTAL MU Moron !!! Do they have a MU for Dummies book ?  {#emotions_dlg.thumbup} I have hazel eyes, I'm a brunette, little bit of freckles on my face and I burn once then tan.  I will have to take a look in my closet and see what I have, my main wardrobe is jeans and a t-shirt.

~~ The world is a wonderful place and everyone should shut up and enjoy it every once in a while. ~~

csv3201271007628.3836724 PostsRegistered 6/24/2007
On 4/11/2010 Funloving said:

I have the same confusion with this warm/cool thing.   By all I've learned I'd be typically a warm-tone with light golden blonde hair (but that's from my hairdresser) and medium yellow undertones to my skin.  Eyes are blue and turn green.

I pick optic white over cream, black over brown.. the only colors I'm always complimented on is that strange light violet/pink color- very cool... and olive green- which is warm.  Go figure.Cool

Funloving, both of those colors are "cool" on the colorwheel, so I'm not surprised that you can wear them both. (violet blue and green are cool colors)

Last edited on 4/11/2010

Last edited on 4/11/2010

beach-mom1271009615.2879744 PostsRegistered 8/1/2007Mid-Atlantic
On 4/11/2010 RachelJ said:
On 4/11/2010 irishwoman said:

i too have some trouble with all this color thing..

but, first, whats your eye color, hair color, do you have freckels?

do you tan easy?? do you burn easy?? theres lots of things to consider..

i can speek for myself, i have blue/grey eyes,fair skin,and some freckels,golden blond hair thats highlighted that way,i look good in a little warmer colors myself.not to bright, but not dull..

i would say softer colors look better on me, but iam 60, and just feel better in them..

iam always kinda on the fence about cool/warm thing, i dont look good in some colors..

look into your closet. see what the main catgorie your cloths are???

do you have mainly,warm tones,or cool tones. hanging in there??

to me, theres alot more to it than just looking at your viens in your wrist..

get some fabric,a large mirrow, and set in front of a window in natural light, then hold some gold frabric next to your face, and see how you look, them do the same with silver..

i hope this has helped in some way??

bren

 

\

 

 

Hi Girls,

Thank you for all the great info, I am a TOTAL MU Moron !!! Do they have a MU for Dummies book ?  {#emotions_dlg.thumbup} I have hazel eyes, I'm a brunette, little bit of freckles on my face and I burn once then tan.  I will have to take a look in my closet and see what I have, my main wardrobe is jeans and a t-shirt.

 Everyone here has already given you good advice. Just going by your hair and eye colors, and the fact that you burn first, I would guess you lean warm. I would definitely do the white/off-white test. If stark white makes your complexion look greyish, then you're probably warm. Do the test with no makeup on. You can always adjust your makeup to what you want to wear - which is what I do.

NurseRecru­iter1271010450.98713869 PostsRegistered 6/9/2005Suburban Chicago

Just look around at men and women the next time you are in a public place where caucasian people are stationary (men are easier since they don't wear makeup!) - like a restaurant, church, lines at the grocery store, a party, outdoor sporting event.  This gets a bit trickier in the summer when many are sporting tans/faux tans.  When you see two people side by side, try to figure out who is yellow-y and who is pink-y or who is neither or both the same (which won't help much with this experiement!).  I think this is really the best way to get a handle on undertones.  I fit very few of the "tests" and I am absolutely yellow undertones (warm).  I look better in white than off white, my veins are blue.  I look good in both gold and silver jewelry.   Observe people, even the news anchors on tv if there are two anchors.  It can be hard to just look at one person but when you see a group together, you will notice who leans pink (much fewer) and who leans yellow.  Then afte a while you can sense what group you start to fit in with or neither, which makes you neutral - lucky!

Are we friends on Facebook yet? See my profile for FB contact info!

Funloving1271010479.7078108 PostsRegistered 3/4/2007
On 4/11/2010 CSV320 said:
On 4/11/2010 Funloving said:

I have the same confusion with this warm/cool thing.   By all I've learned I'd be typically a warm-tone with light golden blonde hair (but that's from my hairdresser) and medium yellow undertones to my skin.  Eyes are blue and turn green.

I pick optic white over cream, black over brown.. the only colors I'm always complimented on is that strange light violet/pink color- very cool... and olive green- which is warm.  Go figure.Cool

Funloving, both of those colors are "cool" on the colorwheel, so I'm not surprised that you can wear them both. (violet blue and green are cool colors)

Last edited on 4/11/2010

Thanks CSV.  For some reason I thought olive green was more a color for redheads, making it warm vs. cool.  Good info!  Grazie {#emotions_dlg.wub}

-By grace alone through faith alone-

PirateEye1271014471.523656 PostsRegistered 11/18/2007near Seattle, WA

Do you look better in gold (warm) or silver (cool) jewelery?  If both metals look equally good then your skin tone is probably neutral.

 

luvmygumbo1271015166.8231792 PostsRegistered 5/18/2009

RachelJ, I am just like you in that I have blue and green veins.  I still really don't know if I'm cool or warm.  I would try using makeup to figure out what looks best on you.  I know for me, if a lipstick or blush is too cool or blue-based, it doesn't look right and if it's too brown or orange, that doesn't look good either.  Based on my results, I figure that I'm neutral. 

I also had my makeup done at a MAC counter and my foundation is NW20.  I didn't ask what that meant, but maybe I'm Neutral/warm?

Julie

Bella HS1271016493.0038076 PostsRegistered 12/17/2007East Hampton, NY
On 4/11/2010 CSV320 said:
On 4/11/2010 sommertime said:

I have never heard of the color of your veins method, probably most are blue/green.

Take a look at the under-side of your wrist and palm, if your hue is olive/yellow undertones then you are warm, if the hue is pink then you are cool. Hope this helps and you find the right shade!{#emotions_dlg.thumbup1}

I'm not sure about the wrist thing. A really easy way to do it is, go to a window with natural light with a mirror -- put a white blouse next to your face. Now put a cream colored blouse next to your face. If you look better in the white blouse you are cool. If you look better in the cream color or off white blouse, then you are warm. You might need an "assistant" to help you decide if white or off white is your best color.

I agree with the white or cream clothing.  I look better in Cream clothing.

goldenretr­iever1271018263.1975977 PostsRegistered 10/21/2006At the lake...in the water...chasing birds...

It IS confusing!  {#emotions_dlg.confused1}

I also have both blue & green veins, & can wear both white & cream....on & on...I've come to the conclusion that I'm a neutral. But I do feel lighter & brighter in a true white, so....{#emotions_dlg.bored}   {#emotions_dlg.tongue}

Lakeside, with a KONG toy in my mouth.

beach-mom1271019013.949744 PostsRegistered 8/1/2007Mid-Atlantic
On 4/11/2010 julesg100 said:

RachelJ, I am just like you in that I have blue and green veins.  I still really don't know if I'm cool or warm.  I would try using makeup to figure out what looks best on you.  I know for me, if a lipstick or blush is too cool or blue-based, it doesn't look right and if it's too brown or orange, that doesn't look good either.  Based on my results, I figure that I'm neutral. 

I also had my makeup done at a MAC counter and my foundation is NW20.  I didn't ask what that meant, but maybe I'm Neutral/warm?

Julie

julesg100 -My daughter is NW15, , which is actually cool. I like to play with this. Here's a link to my notes:

 

I'm N5 or NW20 or NC20 (depending on the SA who helped me) in MAC; LM Silk Creme Foundation Creamy Ivory

My interpretation of MAC's NW vs. NC! I'm no expert, but you can take it for what it's worth. Maybe it will help somebody a little!

When I started using MAC, the SA typed me as NW. The next one typed me as N5, which I bought in Studio Fix. Then another one said I was NC. I was confused after reading so many posts about that on here. So I went to the MAC manager at our department store. She told me NW = neutral-warm. This makes sense because I've always known I'm on the "warm" side and look better in warmer colors. So it follows that NC = neutral-cool? But I found out I was wrong. It seems in "MAC talk," neutral-cool is warm - I think - according to some helpful MAC experts here on MUA. So the bottom line is I'm still confused! What follows here I know. For the record, I am warm. I look best in ivory, rust, olive green, etc. I have a friend who has been a fashion consultant for many years. When she started out, she used me as one of her "models" for clothes and makeup (she was the one who got me to get rid of my tiny earposts and go with some larger ones!) She taught me this, which I still use today to give advice to anyone who asks me:

One of the easiest ways to determine if you lean to cool or warm is to put off-white/ivory and pure white next to your face. Which looks better? If your face stands out with one, that is not the color for you. You want a blended look. If it looks better with pure white, that's usually cool; off-white is usually warm. If pure white gives your face a greyish look, you're probably warm. One MUA'er wondered if anyone could look good with stark white next to her face. Think of Snow White with very dark hair and red lips. I have a friend who has black hair and she looks terrific in stark white. I don't look that great! It washes me out. I still wear it if I feel like it, but I adjust my makeup (which is another trick my friend taught me). If cream or off-white gives your face a creamy, glowing look, you're probably warm. If you look good in jewel-toned colors (emerald, sapphire, ruby), you are probably "cool." If you look good in earth-toned colors or the colors of leaves, you're probably "warm."

THIS IS JUST A GUIDELINE! I believe that any woman can wear any color of makeup or clothes she wants. Even the MAC website says our skin changes. We know what looks good on us, and if it gives us pleasure to wear it, we will. But some colors make us look terrific, and this is a guideline for finding those colors. And if you read the Board comments, we are constantly saying things like "I can't wear blue e/s," or "Peach blush disappears on me." Trial and error is fun, and I LOVE TO PLAY WITH MY MAKEUP! Thanks for listening!

AND NOW FROM THE M.A.C. WEBSITE:

"GUIDE TO MAC SHADE NAMES FOR MAC FOUNDATION, CONCEALER,AND POWDER:

M.A.C. shade designations for Foundation, Concealer, and Powder are a combination of a letter and a number.

The letter represents the colour family of the product. The number denotes the lightness or darkness. The higher the number, the deeper the colour.

The first step in selecting your shade is to simply look at your skin, without makeup, in daylight.

Decide which of the following descriptions best represents your skin colour:

If your skin looks more Golden Beige, you match with Neutral-Cool or NC shades.

If your skin looks more Pink Beige, you match with Neutral-Warm or NW shades.

Most skin tones will fall into these two classifications. However, if you are still not certain which classification is right for you, consider the undertones in your skin.

To determine your undertone, take a look at the underside of your forearm.

If your veins look more blue, then you most likely have pinkish undertones. If your veins look more green, then you have more yellow or golden undertones.

If you have a significant undertone to your skin, you may choose to play it up or play it down by trying a shade that includes or excludes your undertones.

If your skin looks more Yellow-Golden Olive, you will find those undertones in the Cool or C shades.

If your skin looks more Beige, you will match with the Neutral or N shades.

If your skin looks more Pink, you will find those pink undertones in the Warm or W shades.

Please bear in mind finding the right "colour" is something very subjective. Most people will wear a variety of different shades throughout the year because the colour of skin changes according to the lighting, the seasons, and physical well-being. We encourage you to visit a store near you, or if you prefer, to e-mail a M.A.C. Artist for a personal consultation."

 

I wrote this before discovering the makeup lines on QVC. Now I'm a big fan of Mally, Laura Geller, and Smashbox.

Last edited on 4/11/2010

Last edited on 4/11/2010

csv3201271019457.266724 PostsRegistered 6/24/2007
On 4/11/2010 beach-mom said:
On 4/11/2010 julesg100 said:

RachelJ, I am just like you in that I have blue and green veins.  I still really don't know if I'm cool or warm.  I would try using makeup to figure out what looks best on you.  I know for me, if a lipstick or blush is too cool or blue-based, it doesn't look right and if it's too brown or orange, that doesn't look good either.  Based on my results, I figure that I'm neutral. 

I also had my makeup done at a MAC counter and my foundation is NW20.  I didn't ask what that meant, but maybe I'm Neutral/warm?

Julie

julesg100 -My daughter is NW15, , which is actually cool. I like to play with this. Here's a link to my notes:

 

I'm N5 or NW20 or NC20 (depending on the SA who helped me) in MAC; LM Silk Creme Foundation Creamy Ivory

My interpretation of MAC's NW vs. NC! I'm no expert, but you can take it for what it's worth. Maybe it will help somebody a little!

When I started using MAC, the SA typed me as NW. The next one typed me as N5, which I bought in Studio Fix. Then another one said I was NC. I was confused after reading so many posts about that on here. So I went to the MAC manager at our department store. She told me NW = neutral-warm. This makes sense because I've always known I'm on the "warm" side and look better in warmer colors. So it follows that NC = neutral-cool? But I found out I was wrong. It seems in "MAC talk," neutral-cool is warm - I think - according to some helpful MAC experts here on MUA. So the bottom line is I'm still confused! What follows here I know. For the record, I am warm. I look best in ivory, rust, olive green, etc. I have a friend who has been a fashion consultant for many years. When she started out, she used me as one of her "models" for clothes and makeup (she was the one who got me to get rid of my tiny earposts and go with some larger ones!) She taught me this, which I still use today to give advice to anyone who asks me:

One of the easiest ways to determine if you lean to cool or warm is to put off-white/ivory and pure white next to your face. Which looks better? If your face stands out with one, that is not the color for you. You want a blended look. If it looks better with pure white, that's usually cool; off-white is usually warm. If pure white gives your face a greyish look, you're probably warm. One MUA'er wondered if anyone could look good with stark white next to her face. Think of Snow White with very dark hair and red lips. I have a friend who has black hair and she looks terrific in stark white. I don't look that great! It washes me out. I still wear it if I feel like it, but I adjust my makeup (which is another trick my friend taught me). If cream or off-white gives your face a creamy, glowing look, you're probably warm. If you look good in jewel-toned colors (emerald, sapphire, ruby), you are probably "cool." If you look good in earth-toned colors or the colors of leaves, you're probably "warm."

THIS IS JUST A GUIDELINE! I believe that any woman can wear any color of makeup or clothes she wants. Even the MAC website says our skin changes. We know what looks good on us, and if it gives us pleasure to wear it, we will. But some colors make us look terrific, and this is a guideline for finding those colors. And if you read the Board comments, we are constantly saying things like "I can't wear blue e/s," or "Peach blush disappears on me." Trial and error is fun, and I LOVE TO PLAY WITH MY MAKEUP! Thanks for listening!

AND NOW FROM THE M.A.C. WEBSITE:

"GUIDE TO MAC SHADE NAMES FOR MAC FOUNDATION, CONCEALER,AND POWDER:

M.A.C. shade designations for Foundation, Concealer, and Powder are a combination of a letter and a number.

The letter represents the colour family of the product. The number denotes the lightness or darkness. The higher the number, the deeper the colour.

The first step in selecting your shade is to simply look at your skin, without makeup, in daylight.

Decide which of the following descriptions best represents your skin colour:

If your skin looks more Golden Beige, you match with Neutral-Cool or NC shades.

If your skin looks more Pink Beige, you match with Neutral-Warm or NW shades.

Most skin tones will fall into these two classifications. However, if you are still not certain which classification is right for you, consider the undertones in your skin.

To determine your undertone, take a look at the underside of your forearm.

If your veins look more blue, then you most likely have pinkish undertones. If your veins look more green, then you have more yellow or golden undertones.

If you have a significant undertone to your skin, you may choose to play it up or play it down by trying a shade that includes or excludes your undertones.

If your skin looks more Yellow-Golden Olive, you will find those undertones in the Cool or C shades.

If your skin looks more Beige, you will match with the Neutral or N shades.

If your skin looks more Pink, you will find those pink undertones in the Warm or W shades.

Please bear in mind finding the right "colour" is something very subjective. Most people will wear a variety of different shades throughout the year because the colour of skin changes according to the lighting, the seasons, and physical well-being. We encourage you to visit a store near you, or if you prefer, to e-mail a M.A.C. Artist for a personal consultation."

 

I wrote this before discovering the makeup lines on QVC. Now I'm a big fan of Mally, Laura Geller, and Smashbox.

Last edited on 4/11/2010

This post gave me a headache. {#emotions_dlg.lol}

goldenretr­iever1271019907.7375977 PostsRegistered 10/21/2006At the lake...in the water...chasing birds...

Now I'm WAY confused  {#emotions_dlg.tongue}.

It sounds to me like the professionals don't even have a clue. I guess I'll just continue to wing it. {#emotions_dlg.blink} 

 

Lakeside, with a KONG toy in my mouth.

beach-mom1271022515.7039744 PostsRegistered 8/1/2007Mid-Atlantic
On 4/11/2010 CSV320 said:
This post gave me a headache. {#emotions_dlg.lol}

 Sorry. As I said, I like to play around with this. I can even guess most of the time which color jewelry would look better on people.

matthew1271023621.097357 PostsRegistered 5/7/2007richmond ca

I am both warm and cool.  In makeup, cool shades bring my skin to life although I believe warmer blush shades work best. 

 

In clothing, I tend to wear neutrals although I can wear some shades of blue, green, and yellow although they have to be a specific mix of warm and cool.

csv3201271023794.966724 PostsRegistered 6/24/2007
On 4/11/2010 beach-mom said:
On 4/11/2010 CSV320 said:
This post gave me a headache. {#emotions_dlg.lol}

 Sorry. As I said, I like to play around with this. I can even guess most of the time which color jewelry would look better on people.

beach mom, actually, the more I read and re-read your post, it made sense to me! Thanks for your observations. I think I will be more in tune to people's skin tones when I am out and about, and do the exercise Nurse Recruiter said to do. (find what she said she does somewhere in this thread) All I know is I look like death warmed over in beige and gold jewelry, that part is very clear to me.

beach-mom1271034893.8979744 PostsRegistered 8/1/2007Mid-Atlantic
On 4/11/2010 CSV320 said:
On 4/11/2010 beach-mom said:
On 4/11/2010 CSV320 said:
This post gave me a headache. {#emotions_dlg.lol}

 Sorry. As I said, I like to play around with this. I can even guess most of the time which color jewelry would look better on people.

beach mom, actually, the more I read and re-read your post, it made sense to me! Thanks for your observations. I think I will be more in tune to people's skin tones when I am out and about, and do the exercise Nurse Recruiter said to do. (find what she said she does somewhere in this thread) All I know is I look like death warmed over in beige and gold jewelry, that part is very clear to me.

 CSV320 - I thought after I posted that I should have just linked to my "notes" on another site instead of copying all of them! Thanks for your patience in reading. I've always been fascinated with this. When I was in my early 20's, my good friend was a hairstylist at a nice salon. It was in an old Victorian home and you would get a glass of wine when you went in for any service. The owner decided she wanted to start selling Carol Jackson's program and makeup. One of Carol's assistants came to train the staff. I was asked to be one of the models. This was my first experience with color printing. Some years later, another one of my closest friends who was a fashion buyer became interested in this concept. She also used me as one of her models when she was asked to give presentations. (Back then I had no problem being seen without any makeup on; now, I don't think so!) She still does it. I probably should have been trained to do this, too. But I was teaching and that pretty much took up all of my time! Sorry for the book. I thought it might explain how I became so interested in this! Smile

swissmiss1271036006.3232226 PostsRegistered 10/3/2005

I am also one of those people who get confused by this.  I will say that in the cooler months when I have no color from the sun I look best in cool color and makeup.  BUT now that we went to the tropics for a week and I am outside a lot in the good weather here (finally) I can wear those cools, but also can wear peachy makeup (blush, lip color, etc.).  AND I can actually wear orange--I have three tops now that people stop me to compliment the color.  I cannot wear that color if I am not a little "sun-kissed".  I just look for what looks good on me at that particular time of year.

luvmygumbo1271036215.4271792 PostsRegistered 5/18/2009

beach-mom, your info on MAC shades makes sense.  I have pink-beige skin.  I also have some yellow undertones, so I think I'm neutral.  At least, I know my makeup doesn't look good if I go too cool or warm.

 

Julie

Woodsy Wom­an1271038520.264227 PostsRegistered 8/27/2007

Well I thought I would take a gander at the shade of foundation I have now and it's Clinque Shade 8 N.  So it is a neutral shade but when I apply it, it looks "ashy" to me and makes my undereye area look "blue" sort of a racoon look. 

When my face is tan I don't need or wear foundation, so I just started to apply sunless tanner to my face today {#emotions_dlg.tongue} problem solved for now yah right !! 

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR AWESOME AND INFORMATIVE ANSWERS !!!  I have to give kudo's to the posters on this forum, it's one of the best that I have found.  Tons of knowledge and wonderful people.  Thank you all again !!!

~~ The world is a wonderful place and everyone should shut up and enjoy it every once in a while. ~~

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