PH of our skincare

Myshell, MAP is stable at a neutral pH, around 5.5, so your MAP Vit. C serum is fine. However, I've read that MAP does not enter the skin as readily as L-ascorbic acid. Here's an article on Vit. C you might find interesting from the Truth in Aging website.

Also, here's a link to a compilation of information on pH that was posted on the Essential Day Spa forum.

And, here's a link to a list of the pH of some popular soaps and cleansers.

Years (and years) ago when I became an Erno Laszlo devotee, I was reading a piece by a woman who actually went to Dr. Laszlo. She was all about pH and was testing everything she owned. She was dismayed to learn her cleanser (I think it was the Sea Mud Soap) was outside the "okay" range. Laszlo said yes, but the ingredients that caused that were needed to cleanse the skin, and the following step (toner? Phelityl?) restored the optimal pH to the skin.

I seem to remember I tested them, too, and he was right about the pH levels in those products (I can't remember what the Shake It was, though). Anyway, don't know if it's true that the cleanser needs to be "harsh" -- but according to the link that Sweet Susie provided (thanks!) it seems there are plenty out there that are "safe".

I read the piece you linked to, myshell, then went looking for those strips. Unfortunately, they're no longer available through the supplier the author used, it was recommended to get them from amazon. But, there seem to be a variety of strips available, and once again, I'm confused! :-)

On 8/12/2014 Sweet Susie said:

Myshell, MAP is stable at a neutral pH, around 5.5, so your MAP Vit. C serum is fine. However, I've read that MAP does not enter the skin as readily as L-ascorbic acid. Here's an article on Vit. C you might find interesting from the Truth in Aging website.

Also, here's a link to a compilation of information on pH that was posted on the Essential Day Spa forum.

And, here's a link to a list of the pH of some popular soaps and cleansers.

Thank you so much Susie!!! I read the article on the truth in aging site earlier today but I somehow missed the part where it said it was stable at a neutral ph. I think I'm in information overload. LOL.

L-Ascorbic acid is too irritating for me. It stings, burns and turns my skin red for quite awhile after I apply it. I've tried several serums and had the same problem, some less than others. MAP is really gentle. After reading the article you provided the link too, I'm sticking with the one I'm using:-)

This is a pretty good article - it details the changes in the pH of the skin but also discusses why products need to be at the proper pH to be effective.

Link here: http://www.skininc.com/skinscience/physiology/171837731.html?page=1

I know that this is something Paula Begoun talks about a lot. If products have salycilic acid but the pH is too high then the salicylic acid just won't be effective.

myshell, I've been reading about your vitamin C quest and your wondering about the proper pH for vitamin C. Since I have had so few problems over the years (well, no problems, really) with the skin things I've tried, I didn't pay much attention to pH. What I learned, though, is that your skin needs to be somewhat acidic in order to fight off bacteria. That's the acid mantle Manuella mentioned.

pH may be "off" in skincare things, if you are experiencing adverse skin problems; i.e., the redness, breakouts, acne, etc.

Since you cannot use L-ascorbic acid, because in order for that to be effective, it needs that lower pH, then just stick with the forms you can use. You said you tried different L-ascorbic Cs, but I'm not sure if you've experimented with different C strengths, and if your reaction is the same. (I have other theories on this, but on reserve.)

I think too many times we (on the BB) think topically, but you can also obtain your quota of C internally. Read the Linus Pauling studies on the benefits of internal C. And if you cannot use it topically, I wouldn't fret. (Unless you are still experimenting with what you can use and wanting to change it for some reason.)

But, not everyone can use every thing. Your own skin should tell you what you need, or what is even feasible.

My skin type can use L-ascorbic acid w/ no problems. I already know (and sometimes think about) the pH of my morning cleanser (which is neutral). Since I have no adverse conditions, I just continue with what I'm using. Same with my moisturizer or whatever else I use. I don't always know what pH those things have, but somewhere I have to trust that my skin pH is what it should be, since there are no visible signs to the contrary.

If you can say that with what you are using, then I think you're on the right track.

The pH strips that I have are pHyrion Papers 1-12 by Micro Essential Laboratories. I looked on Amazon and they are out of the ones I have but they have lots of others that will work fine. Look for general purpose pH papers that have a range from 1-13 and have the color chart for each pH (see example in photo below). You just dip a small piece of the pH paper in the item to be tested, wait a bit and match the color to the pH shown on the color chart. Easy as pie!

On 8/13/2014 Harpa said:

myshell, I've been reading about your vitamin C quest and your wondering about the proper pH for vitamin C. Since I have had so few problems over the years (well, no problems, really) with the skin things I've tried, I didn't pay much attention to pH. What I learned, though, is that your skin needs to be somewhat acidic in order to fight off bacteria. That's the acid mantle Manuella mentioned.

pH may be "off" in skincare things, if you are experiencing adverse skin problems; i.e., the redness, breakouts, acne, etc.

Since you cannot use L-ascorbic acid, because in order for that to be effective, it needs that lower pH, then just stick with the forms you can use. You said you tried different L-ascorbic Cs, but I'm not sure if you've experimented with different C strengths, and if your reaction is the same. (I have other theories on this, but on reserve.)

I think too many times we (on the BB) think topically, but you can also obtain your quota of C internally. Read the Linus Pauling studies on the benefits of internal C. And if you cannot use it topically, I wouldn't fret. (Unless you are still experimenting with what you can use and wanting to change it for some reason.)

But, not everyone can use every thing. Your own skin should tell you what you need, or what is even feasible.

My skin type can use L-ascorbic acid w/ no problems. I already know (and sometimes think about) the pH of my morning cleanser (which is neutral). Since I have no adverse conditions, I just continue with what I'm using. Same with my moisturizer or whatever else I use. I don't always know what pH those things have, but somewhere I have to trust that my skin pH is what it should be, since there are no visible signs to the contrary.

If you can say that with what you are using, then I think you're on the right track.

I think you missed her point- when vitamin C isn't maintained at the proper pH, it can be ineffective. An infeffective vitamin C will NOT cause you any irritation. She wants to be sure her vitamin C- whichever form she chooses- is at the proper, ideal pH so that it is actual doing what it is suppose to do in terms of supporting/protecting the skin (free radical scavenging, etc). You can not judge whether a vitamin C product is doing anything for you just based on whether or not you have a visible sign of irritation and in fact, you will NOT see any irritation for some types of vitamin C (and for l-ascorbic acid if it is formulated well with other calming/soothing ingredients) and yet it may not be doing anything for you if it isn't at the proper pH and/or has been oxidized due to exposure to light and air, etc.

To simply say if you aren't experiencing irritation that it must be fine and working for you isn't right at all, not in the case of vitamin C anyway.

On 8/13/2014 Harpa said:

myshell, I've been reading about your vitamin C quest and your wondering about the proper pH for vitamin C. Since I have had so few problems over the years (well, no problems, really) with the skin things I've tried, I didn't pay much attention to pH. What I learned, though, is that your skin needs to be somewhat acidic in order to fight off bacteria. That's the acid mantle Manuella mentioned.

pH may be "off" in skincare things, if you are experiencing adverse skin problems; i.e., the redness, breakouts, acne, etc.

Since you cannot use L-ascorbic acid, because in order for that to be effective, it needs that lower pH, then just stick with the forms you can use. You said you tried different L-ascorbic Cs, but I'm not sure if you've experimented with different C strengths, and if your reaction is the same. (I have other theories on this, but on reserve.)

I think too many times we (on the BB) think topically, but you can also obtain your quota of C internally. Read the Linus Pauling studies on the benefits of internal C. And if you cannot use it topically, I wouldn't fret. (Unless you are still experimenting with what you can use and wanting to change it for some reason.)

But, not everyone can use every thing. Your own skin should tell you what you need, or what is even feasible.

My skin type can use L-ascorbic acid w/ no problems. I already know (and sometimes think about) the pH of my morning cleanser (which is neutral). Since I have no adverse conditions, I just continue with what I'm using. Same with my moisturizer or whatever else I use. I don't always know what pH those things have, but somewhere I have to trust that my skin pH is what it should be, since there are no visible signs to the contrary.

If you can say that with what you are using, then I think you're on the right track.

Harpa thank you so much for your response. I've been reading a lot of information on ph and it can get overwhelming. I have learned a lot though:-)

My skin seems happy. I'm not having any redness or dry patches. The only acne I may get is around that time of the month. I have had some of those issues in the past but I think the products I am using now are working well. I have been changing some things the last few months trying to get rid of my brown spots. They are fading. I find I'm wearing less makeup and looking better. Yay!!! I am getting a good idea of what I need to use in the future to keep my skin even and healthy. Vitamin C is one of the keys to keeping my skin bright so I probably put more focus on that than some others may. On less I find some contradicting information about the ph of MAP, I'm going to stick with my current serum. I'm happy with the ingredients in it and it doesn't irritate me at all.

You mention an interesting point about using different %'s of L-Ascorbic acid. I think most of the ones I've tried have been 20% with the exception of PC which is 15%. I don't know if I would get the results I want with anything lower than that.

On 8/13/2014 HappyDaze said:

On 8/13/2014 Harpa said:

myshell, I've been reading about your vitamin C quest and your wondering about the proper pH for vitamin C. Since I have had so few problems over the years (well, no problems, really) with the skin things I've tried, I didn't pay much attention to pH. What I learned, though, is that your skin needs to be somewhat acidic in order to fight off bacteria. That's the acid mantle Manuella mentioned.

pH may be "off" in skincare things, if you are experiencing adverse skin problems; i.e., the redness, breakouts, acne, etc.

Since you cannot use L-ascorbic acid, because in order for that to be effective, it needs that lower pH, then just stick with the forms you can use. You said you tried different L-ascorbic Cs, but I'm not sure if you've experimented with different C strengths, and if your reaction is the same. (I have other theories on this, but on reserve.)

I think too many times we (on the BB) think topically, but you can also obtain your quota of C internally. Read the Linus Pauling studies on the benefits of internal C. And if you cannot use it topically, I wouldn't fret. (Unless you are still experimenting with what <em>you</em> can use and wanting to change it for some reason.)

But, not everyone can use every thing. Your own skin should tell you what you need, or what is even feasible.

My skin type can use L-ascorbic acid w/ no problems. I already know (and sometimes think about) the pH of my morning cleanser (which is neutral). Since I have no adverse conditions, I just continue with what I'm using. Same with my moisturizer or whatever else I use. I don't always know what pH those things have, but somewhere I have to trust that my skin pH is what it should be, <em>since there are no visible signs to the contrary.</em>

If you can say <em>that</em> with what you are using, then I think you're on the right track.

I think you missed her point- when vitamin C isn't maintained at the proper pH, it can be ineffective. An infeffective vitamin C will NOT cause you any irritation. She wants to be sure her vitamin C- whichever form she chooses- is at the proper, ideal pH so that it is actual doing what it is suppose to do in terms of supporting/protecting the skin (free radical scavenging, etc). You can not judge whether a vitamin C product is doing anything for you just based on whether or not you have a visible sign of irritation and in fact, you will NOT see any irritation for some types of vitamin C (and for l-ascorbic acid if it is formulated well with other calming/soothing ingredients) and yet it may not be doing anything for you if it isn't at the proper pH and/or has been oxidized due to exposure to light and air, etc.

To simply say if you aren't experiencing irritation that it must be fine and working for you isn't right at all, not in the case of vitamin C anyway.

Yes that is exactly my concern. What's so frustrating is the lack if information about other forms of vitamin c. Most of what I've found is about L-Ascorbic acid and I'm not sure the same applies for other forms.