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"Brain Dead" young man and miraculous recovery

Started 1324577402.88 in Viewpoints | Last reply 1325085963.073 by lazy_daisy

http://gma.yahoo.com/readied-donate-organs-21-old-emerges-coma-204904805.html

This is on yahoo today. Wow. What a story!

"Oh wad some power the giftie gie us To see oursel's as others see us!"
--Robert Burns

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cindychats1324578724.86717559 PostsRegistered 6/2/2008

Yes, I saw that. Isn't it a great blessing for him and his family.

BlueCollar­Babe1324579154.96310862 PostsRegistered 9/26/2007

This is why families should not be rushed into "pulling the plug" on people. Doctors are under pressure from utilization committees and insurance companies to limit hospital stays. The whole concept of "brain dead" is fraught with room for error and interpretation.

Sometimes it's clear even to the untrained observer that a patient can never again have a good quality of life but many times even doctors get it wrong.

Last edited on 12/22/2011

Last edited on 12/22/2011

BlueCollar­Babe1324579250.50310862 PostsRegistered 9/26/2007

Sorry, double post.

Last edited on 12/22/2011

Last edited on 12/22/2011

clemintine1324582803.81718221 PostsRegistered 11/5/2007C.C.

Imagine that! 2nd chances are few and far between. He's one lucky guy!

chrystaltr­ee1324583843.55312218 PostsRegistered 5/10/2010

It's blessing, a testament to modern medicine. But he had never been declared brain dead, that was an assumption but they never did the testing required to document brain death because he showed signs of improvement. There is NO chance of error when it comes to brain death, it's not based only on the patient being in a coma and it's not open to interpretation. There is physical criteria, neurological exams, multiple EEG's and that documentation goes to a commitee comprised of physicians who are not involved in the patient's care. This young man was extremely fortunate, he suffered a catastrophic brain injury that would have killed most people but he wasn't even close to having his "plug pulled".

cindychats1324664476.08317559 PostsRegistered 6/2/2008
On 12/22/2011 chrystaltree said:

It's blessing, a testament to modern medicine. But he had never been declared brain dead, that was an assumption but they never did the testing required to document brain death because he showed signs of improvement. There is NO chance of error when it comes to brain death, it's not based only on the patient being in a coma and it's not open to interpretation. There is physical criteria, neurological exams, multiple EEG's and that documentation goes to a commitee comprised of physicians who are not involved in the patient's care. This young man was extremely fortunate, he suffered a catastrophic brain injury that would have killed most people but he wasn't even close to having his "plug pulled".


There is medical documentation that patients are many times misdiagnosed to be in a persistant vegatative state when they are not.

There are 40 affidavits from Drs and medical personnel stating Terry was interacting with people and would improve with the therapy her husband stopped but the judge that removed her feeding tube refused to read them.

BlueCollar­Babe1324665438.9110862 PostsRegistered 9/26/2007
On 12/22/2011 chrystaltree said:

It's blessing, a testament to modern medicine. But he had never been declared brain dead, that was an assumption but they never did the testing required to document brain death because he showed signs of improvement. There is NO chance of error when it comes to brain death, it's not based only on the patient being in a coma and it's not open to interpretation. There is physical criteria, neurological exams, multiple EEG's and that documentation goes to a commitee comprised of physicians who are not involved in the patient's care. This young man was extremely fortunate, he suffered a catastrophic brain injury that would have killed most people but he wasn't even close to having his "plug pulled".

Well, one of the leading neurologists in the U.S. disagrees with you. He says that, although, "ideally" there would be no chance of error in declaring someone brain dead, in reality there is. The AMA has guidelines for the determination but the actual steps to be taken differ from state to state.

In 2002 the results of a worldwide survey were published in Neurology, concluding that the use of the term "brain death" worldwide is "an accepted fact but there was no global consensus on the diagnostic criteria" and there are still "unresolved issues worldwide". It is a contrivance for the purpose of harvesting organs and depending on how desperately those organs are needed, the brain injured person may be be declared brain dead more quickly than is advised. Some cases have been assessed within the first 2 days post trauma which is a period when brain swelling might make the brain appear dead on EEG and other exams.

In 2010, The American Academy of Neurologists revised its' guidelines for determining brain death because of concerns stemming from a 2008 study which showed a wide variation in standards nation-wide. Some hospitals require that two doctors agree on the diagnosis of brain death but, in many settings, one is all that is required. The idea of an impartial committee, as you speak of, is indeed a rarity.

Last edited on 12/23/2011

Last edited on 12/23/2011

Clover291324666807.94710497 PostsRegistered 1/19/2008

Being in a persistent vegitative state and being brain dead are worlds apart.

scotttie1324675600.3436473 PostsRegistered 6/15/2006

The article said he was believed to be brain dead and poised to be an organ donor.

"Oh wad some power the giftie gie us To see oursel's as others see us!"
--Robert Burns

Rainbows a­nd Roses1324677348.7918545 PostsRegistered 6/4/2011

I started a post on this yesterday........or the day before.......It might have been deleted though. YES JESUS IS AMAZING and I hope they give the praise and glory to him.

"Crying is for plain women, Pretty women go shopping." Oscar Wilde

"The most beautiful makeup of a woman is passion but cosmetics are easier to buy." YSL

Rainbows a­nd Roses1324677465.51718545 PostsRegistered 6/4/2011

THE Q board removed my post........shame on you........it must have been because I said JESUS..........well, whether you believe it or not Webbies........JESUS is real.

"Crying is for plain women, Pretty women go shopping." Oscar Wilde

"The most beautiful makeup of a woman is passion but cosmetics are easier to buy." YSL

tessan1324682684.381211 PostsRegistered 8/11/2007

Articles like this make me CRAZY, they need to correctly TITLE the article, I deal with this every day, this is my job, the man was NOT brain dead. he had suffered a devastating brain injury, that his prognosis would likely be grim, or be neurologically devastated. Times like this sometimes the family is given the option of withdrawl of support. and an MRI does NOT determine brain death. there are very specific criteria for brain death which MUST be followed to be declared brain dead. This was not the case. there are times when you suspect an injury may cause a patient to ultimately progress to brain death. But traumatic brain injuries in particular you treat and time tells the outcome. And often the outcome is not a positive one , families may be given options and unless brain death criteria is met, the family would be the only one to determine early withdrawl of support based on the results of testing presented to them. Most patients are not this lucky.

tessan1324682751.961211 PostsRegistered 8/11/2007
On 12/23/2011 beammeupscottie said:

The article said he was believed to be brain dead and poised to be an organ donor.

There is no such thing as "believed to be brain dead", you either are or you aren't. This is my problem with the article.

MrsSweetie­Bear1324682900.986397 PostsRegistered 10/6/2004Somewhere UNDER the rainbow

tessan - I don't have the medical background that you have, but even I know to take these articles with a grain of salt. They are written like that for attention grabbing. Readers need to sort through to learn what is true and what is exaggeration. It irritates me too!

My favorite people are dogs, and
Dogs are my favorite people.

tessan1324683449.8631211 PostsRegistered 8/11/2007
On 12/23/2011 Overandout said:
On 12/22/2011 chrystaltree said:

It's blessing, a testament to modern medicine. But he had never been declared brain dead, that was an assumption but they never did the testing required to document brain death because he showed signs of improvement. There is NO chance of error when it comes to brain death, it's not based only on the patient being in a coma and it's not open to interpretation. There is physical criteria, neurological exams, multiple EEG's and that documentation goes to a commitee comprised of physicians who are not involved in the patient's care. This young man was extremely fortunate, he suffered a catastrophic brain injury that would have killed most people but he wasn't even close to having his "plug pulled".

Well, one of the leading neurologists in the U.S. disagrees with you. He says that, although, "ideally" there would be no chance of error in declaring someone brain dead, in reality there is. The AMA has guidelines for the determination but the actual steps to be taken differ from state to state.

In 2002 the results of a worldwide survey were published in Neurology, concluding that the use of the term "brain death" worldwide is "an accepted fact but there was no global consensus on the diagnostic criteria" and there are still "unresolved issues worldwide". It is a contrivance for the purpose of harvesting organs and depending on how desperately those organs are needed, the brain injured person may be be declared brain dead more quickly than is advised. Some cases have been assessed within the first 2 days post trauma which is a period when brain swelling might make the brain appear dead on EEG and other exams.

In 2010, The American Academy of Neurologists revised its' guidelines for determining brain death because of concerns stemming from a 2008 study which showed a wide variation in standards nation-wide. Some hospitals require that two doctors agree on the diagnosis of brain death but, in many settings, one is all that is required. The idea of an impartial committee, as you speak of, is indeed a rarity.

Last edited on 12/23/2011

Physicians are very careful when determining brain death and following the time frames determined between first and second exams, I have seen several times an initial declaration of brain death and prior to the second exam the pt will begin spontaneously breathing, which negates the first exam. the family is always given the option of withdrawl of support, if the efforts to continue are considered futile. Negative cerebral blood flow exams can be an also support the first exam, and they may or may not decide to wait for a second exam in that case. Extreme temperature and electrolyte imbalance can also delay declaration. This is not taken lightly as this article might suggest.

Giordan1324741293.551906 PostsRegistered 8/5/2011

A wonderful Christmas miracle! {#emotions_dlg.wub}

croemer1324741388.76774583 PostsRegistered 1/29/2009

Isn't that a wonderful story?

"Well Bless Your Pea Pickin' Heart."

palmajo1324742243.8277554 PostsRegistered 10/22/2007

What a nice story!! Thank you for posting it. I got a kick out the doctors saying they don't understand what happened...why he woke up, etc. I understand!! {#emotions_dlg.wub}{#emotions_dlg.biggrin}

"The Only Thing Greater Than the Power of the Mind is the Courage of the Heart"

millieshops1324742985.2614720 PostsRegistered 3/15/2007
On 12/23/2011 beammeupscottie said:

The article said he was believed to be brain dead and poised to be an organ donor.


The article in my morning paper did not give me that impression. The family had discussed with some hospital personnel what their son would want IF, but any decision was way ahead of them because no one was ready to declare his death.

In my opinion, discussing the IF doesn't mean it's going to happen, but it allows the family time for discussion and learning their options without having to make snap decisions.

MaggieToo1324743399.5538263 PostsRegistered 10/6/2004AZ

Pretty nice Christmas present for the family!

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

cindychats1325071448.4417559 PostsRegistered 6/2/2008

I still think it was a amazing story. They did not expect this kind of recovering with his severe brain trauma.

And just maybe it was a miracle. Is that so hard to believe. Like someone said, not everyone is as lucky as this young man is.

My son was healed of rare disease and we have plenty of documentation from 3 hospitals inclduing the mayo clinic hat the tumors were in his chest and without any chemo they were gone because of prayers and God.

cindychats1325071637.93717559 PostsRegistered 6/2/2008
On 12/23/2011 tessan said:
On 12/23/2011 Overandout said:
On 12/22/2011 chrystaltree said:

It's blessing, a testament to modern medicine. But he had never been declared brain dead, that was an assumption but they never did the testing required to document brain death because he showed signs of improvement. There is NO chance of error when it comes to brain death, it's not based only on the patient being in a coma and it's not open to interpretation. There is physical criteria, neurological exams, multiple EEG's and that documentation goes to a commitee comprised of physicians who are not involved in the patient's care. This young man was extremely fortunate, he suffered a catastrophic brain injury that would have killed most people but he wasn't even close to having his "plug pulled".

Well, one of the leading neurologists in the U.S. disagrees with you. He says that, although, "ideally" there would be no chance of error in declaring someone brain dead, in reality there is. The AMA has guidelines for the determination but the actual steps to be taken differ from state to state.

In 2002 the results of a worldwide survey were published in Neurology, concluding that the use of the term "brain death" worldwide is "an accepted fact but there was no global consensus on the diagnostic criteria" and there are still "unresolved issues worldwide". It is a contrivance for the purpose of harvesting organs and depending on how desperately those organs are needed, the brain injured person may be be declared brain dead more quickly than is advised. Some cases have been assessed within the first 2 days post trauma which is a period when brain swelling might make the brain appear dead on EEG and other exams.

In 2010, The American Academy of Neurologists revised its' guidelines for determining brain death because of concerns stemming from a 2008 study which showed a wide variation in standards nation-wide. Some hospitals require that two doctors agree on the diagnosis of brain death but, in many settings, one is all that is required. The idea of an impartial committee, as you speak of, is indeed a rarity.

Last edited on 12/23/2011

Physicians are very careful when determining brain death and following the time frames determined between first and second exams, I have seen several times an initial declaration of brain death and prior to the second exam the pt will begin spontaneously breathing, which negates the first exam. the family is always given the option of withdrawl of support, if the efforts to continue are considered futile. Negative cerebral blood flow exams can be an also support the first exam, and they may or may not decide to wait for a second exam in that case. Extreme temperature and electrolyte imbalance can also delay declaration. This is not taken lightly as this article might suggest.


I didn't think it suggsted they were taking it lightly. I think the Dr was giving it some time to see if he improved any before he started declaring him brain dead. Nothing wrong with giving hope a chance. That was my impression.

cindychats1325071722.9917559 PostsRegistered 6/2/2008
On 12/23/2011 Clover29 said:

Being in a persistent vegitative state and being brain dead are worlds apart.


You are right. Guess I had the other issue on my mind since I had been reading some emails related to it recently.

lazy_daisy1325077761.64669 PostsRegistered 9/3/2011

comment deleted

Last edited on 12/28/2011

Last edited on 12/28/2011

cindychats1325085661.71317559 PostsRegistered 6/2/2008
On 12/28/2011 lazy_daisy said:
On 12/23/2011 Rainbows and Roses said:

I started a post on this yesterday........or the day before.......It might have been deleted though. YES JESUS IS AMAZING and I hope they give the praise and glory to him.


Well I guess it's nice that Jesus saved this guy, if that's what you're saying happened. So what about all those kids at St. Jude's? He decided they're not worth saving?

I hope that is not what anyone is saying. The work they do at St Judes is truly a blessing. The research they have done has saved many lives. I don't believe God delights in human suffering. The death and illness came into the picture when sin entered in at the fall of man.

Is one child worth saving over another? No of course not. Why do some survive and others don't? We don't know the answers to that. Whether you belive in God or not, no one can answer those questions.

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